RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (Full Version)

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megakyle777 -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 4:00:29)

So, I decided to train my CHA and LUK to 170 each at level 69 so I could use a BeastMaster Dragonlord Build. It seems to do OK, I look pretty cool, and with Block, Allign, and the health and Mana regain skills I don't need any in END or WIS. Though my damage with weapons is not so great, and I had to restat my dragon since CHA does not affect it's skill effects but it's damage so I restatted them into Might and magic. Just need a good place to test it.




toannghe1997 -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 4:23:11)

go to the Foretell quest in the card shop (Ravenloss book three) if you want to see this update impact, basically our guest dragon is now a true meat shield (tank for 3-4 rounds if nuked) and good pets are good ;)
Side note: guest dragon only has 10 (or 5?) bonus and no stats from our char so yeah... it kinda suck as it keep on missing against those dodgy bosses... poor guy, now function as a true meat shield




Rukaji -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 4:33:35)

The new UI is awesome. I really like the change of look. Fantastic job on that.

Thank you for changing the formula for str, dex, and int. Much easier to tell how much benefit you're getting from it. The crit nerf is understandable. I think DF is the only game where I hit crits more often than regular hits, and 30-40 crit is still good. Having different types of items such as offensive and defensive are a great change I say. This will allow you to shape your build better, instead of just looking at crit to decide to get it.

I am, for the most part, happy about these changes. I trust you guys with making DF as fun as possible, while balancing items and such. Keep up the great work, and I can't wait for more UI updates.




Skullkyopi -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 4:52:35)

The update lowered the HP of most monsters... Does this mean it'll do the same in quests where you're forced to use a NPC armor? Say... Deep Void? or Runed Fortress? [:)]
Please say yes? I've been wanting to farm higher lvled items there.




~Cursed Hero~ -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 5:13:40)

As a huge gamer, I like challenges in the games I play. And DF was probably the easiest game I ever played out of LOTS.

I'm SO glad you guys did this, it's wonderful. The game was getting waaaaay too boring because it was easy, and especially after I got DmK.

Thanks for the update, I love it.

The interface is pretty awesome too.




Grandpa Oz -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 5:24:49)

I like it. My only complaint would be that all the art updates are a bit too bright, and could be made a bit darker imo. But it's not important.
I'm cool with the Stats, since my main class is still ECC, which barely has any Mana costs in the first place and I had too much of it beforehand anyway ^^
(I just tried a long dungeon run, and finished with more than half of my Mana left XD)




Alpha Centipede -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 6:33:22)

So I just logged into the game, and man, was I blown away by the login screen. The buttons look fancy too, I like it a lot. My only complaint is that the UI looks slightly too bright for my liking.

As for the stat changes, I haven't got time now to check it out, but I will soon. I think the crit nerf is a good thing for the game though, because from what I see, now that crit has been nerfed, auto-crit skills have a lot more significance now. I also like the fact that defense stats have been buffed. This should make the Ninja armor rather fun to play with.

Overall, I'm liking this UI update so far, and it's good that DragonFable is getting better progressively.




EMU1 -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 6:54:17)

im ok with everything else but half the CC is outrageous...my DmK feels kinda MEH-ish now :-/




The Jop -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 6:59:30)

You know, after some playing, Kathool Adept is much worse now in boss battles since it runs out of mana extremely quickly...and I have 100 WIS. I think it should really be adjusted (the mana costs of the class if nothing else). MP potions only give 275 back at the most, so they barely help honestly. There's planning your moves out, and then there's this, which is not being able to use your skills after a point. Investing 20 levels into my mana and still running out halfway through a challenge boss signifies that something is wrong, and I'm pretty sure it's not that I just planned it out poorly unless I should use the attack button as part of my strategy.




Silver Sky Magician -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 7:19:22)

It's good to see that Dragonfable's horrendous balance has finally been addressed, and perhaps as importantly, that this has not come at the cost of item viability (unlike AQ) and build diversity, and has in fact enhanced them. The new login screens are also really cool.

Select monsters, such as Razen Al Ghoul, may however need to be reviewed. The most reliable 'strategy' that I know of for non-DA, non-DC users to beat him is to stun and crit on every hit of FireTog Punch. That wouldn't even be enough for a near-guaranteed victory. I'm very certain he's now impossible to beat for most players of this demographic.




The Odor -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 7:22:02)

The Jop: I do think that is the class that got hurt the most, simply due to its insane mana costs...




Azan -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 7:28:57)

I agree about reducing KAA's mana costs. Yes, this class is supposed to drain down mana very fast, but now high damage can't compensate for that.




JaneMark -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 8:06:34)

Wow! A formal and final(ish) breakdown of the stats mechanics; I have been waiting SO LONG for this! Thank you, thank you devs. And the UI does look very pretty. I will miss the ridiculous critting but I can't say I didn't realize it was ridiculous. Most of the time I WAS just going for the equipment that gave the highest crit bonus, which made that stat seriously OP'd. I mean at level cap, if you had 70% crit or more and decent equipment, who cared about STR/DEX/INT END, CHA, or anything? I could one-shot most quest monsters without even using a skill (or one shot all three if I use DoomKnight's multi and crit on all hits).

I'll probably also miss the resistance though I never really focused on that much. I'm ambivalent about that change because I had found the high resist build to be underpowered to begin with (which is why I didn't use it), but I suppose that post crit nerf, it would have been much more viable (maybe too viable).

About the equipment balances, again ambivalent... It sounds like our quest for THE best set of equipment in the game is about to come to an end since there will be MANY pieces of equipment that have the same damage and similar if not same stat distributions. I'm just a bit concerned that equipment in Dragonfable will become like equipment in EpicDuel, where there is very little incentive to change equipment ever, and the ultimate decision comes down to some silly feature like a skill (skill cores work much better as a concept in ED, but I don't know how I would feel if skills like the procs on some weapons right now became more emphasized in DF :\ ) We'll just have to wait and see what happens on that front.

EDIT: Played through an easy quest and though I'm critting less, with a high crit set up, I'm still critting often (195 LUK + lots of critty equipment). So no complaints there.

EDIT2: Is the dragon pet (dragon amulet baby dragon) broken? I have 200 CHAR and it's doing 0 damage. Guest version seems to be ok, though the damage seems a bit underwhelming for 200 charisma (does around 40 damage, my character is max leveled, the dragon is trained 83 in battle).

EDIT3: @Zekrom5 below, I'm waiting to see what happens to the Equipment Comparison portion when the equipment balance hits lol

EDIT4: Is there any chance at all we'll get something similar to this in Mechquest soon? I'm looking forward to that as well. :D




Dracojan -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 8:14:56)

quote:

40 Crit is still respectable, although I don't see how that is exactly half of 78 before.
the crit from items alone is 73, 78% was with the 5% base crit. you must have used equipment that has 70-71 crit from items. it translates into 35% crit from items. and then the 5% base crit is added so its total 40%.

i run through the mana crest quest in the shears to see how my classes are affected by the lower mana provided by wis. my previous and current builds have 0+53 wis. so i had 1k+ mana before and now i have 760-780 based on equipment. using death knight to clear the quest and also kill 3 more encounters on the 2nd floor just to make the quest longer, i used ~600 mana. i did not manage my mana at all and i still couldnt use it all. in the boss fight i used ~600 mana as well. healing before the boss battle is now actually useful?
then i decided to go through the same path with dmk, that ppl complain about, and i used only about 400 mana till the boss fight and 450 mana on the boss herself. i didnt count my hp costs but they were quite insignificant for me to bother. again, i didnt really manage mana. also if im in a long quest, i can always drink 2 mana potions and then just use a single turn to doom myself and get my potions back. i really cant see how such a sustainable class like dmk can have any problems with its resources.

kaa already has good enough mana costs. its spammable, monster clearing skills, cost about as much as those of dk. so costs are very much comparable. the skills that actually cost a lot are the defensive ones that you would only use on bosses and for the nuke. spending as much as 400 mana on offensive skills is enough to kill most bosses and 100-300 mana on defensive skills. i can see a problem only in super long quests where you would need mana potions or very long boss fights like extreme or harder.




Rayen -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 8:18:29)

It's true that KAA now runs out of mana very quickly, however, one way to compensate for this would be to increase the mana regeneration or reduce the cooldown of the skill 'Brain Drain', which has always been next to useless. I do understand that this is a class update and any change to KAA will be quite a while coming, so we'll just have to be patient for now.

I, like others, am also curious to know how the Cryptic passive ability and rogue crit-boosting skills will be affected (if at all) by these changes.

Overall, I love what's been done. A 50 crit. cap STILL seems a little high to be honest, but at least with the balancing of crit-boosting equipment, people won't be striving so strongly to meet this cap as before, unless they sacrifice other stats for a pure crit. build.

Three changes that I would still love to see are:
1. Locked or ordered elemental resistances in the 'Character Information' window, much like AQ Classic's resistance table. It can be quite confusing trying to work out where good or fire resistance is when there are 15 mostly randomly distributed resistances in the table. Secondary resistances could have a subheading beneath, ordered alphabetically, for example.
2. Inventory item tabs. I started playing AQW a few weeks ago and noticed that they have 'Weapons', 'Capes', etc., ordered into separate tabs in the inventory window. I think this would be a fantastic improvement, as, like resistances, it can be hard to find what you're looking for.
3. I think Ash mentioned that character information may become visible when the mouse is hovered over the character/enemy in the future, which sounds amazing if possible.

Hands down this is one of the best things that has happened to DF in a looooong while. Hats (or helms, circlets, crowns, feathers, cowls, magically-applied-faces or...whatever) off to both Ash and Tomix! You guys are AWESOME!!




Cedrei -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 8:18:49)

Now over half of the guides in the guide forum are useless. Yay.




Frost Moglin -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 8:24:28)

With the new update, I think I may try a BeastMaster build. Sadly, since I don't have DC to use to buy inv slots, I can't have 1 pet for each element. Any good pet of an element that barely nothing is strong against?




Yuttt -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 8:25:26)

To clarify, is only the crit from items halved? For example, are the crit boosts from Cryptic halved? or the crit boosts from skills? or from luck?

Also, I greatly appreciate you doing this, Ash. Fixing up everything makes the game feel so much better without all the little bugs floating around.




Frost Moglin -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 8:28:10)

The CHA description at stat training says "increases your pet training and some npc interaction rolls". I think it should be updated to say that it increases pet damage.




Dracojan -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 8:29:31)

quote:

Now over half of the guides in the guide forum are useless. Yay.
i can update mine right away. seeing how all the info is already here, that seems to be not so necessary right now.

crit from items alone is halved. the crit from luk and skills isnt. so you can get a pretty high crit chance with rogue and cryptic but its still the same as getting a direct dmg boost as is with ascendant and riftwalker.




The Odor -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 8:33:05)

Yuttt: I think only equipment is halved, making Rouge classes such as cryptic the premier critter now.




AugustoCP -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 8:36:10)

one thing that has been suggested and really appealed to me was buffing the mana regain skills. The reason I (and so many others) have been complaining about the WIS nerf is that these skills' power depend on your Max MP, so such a heavy blow to it really made these skills mearly useless. I mean, seriously, 2% regain for Chrono and Mage? There's a reason I invested so many points in WIS despite using a class with low MP costs.




The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 8:47:43)

With KAA, the better solution would probably be to make Brain Drain regenerate a percent of max mp instead of just 23.




shadow dragon666 -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 9:24:08)

It's like that with most of the classes now...Especially DC/DmK they are almost bad due to the extreme costs of mana needed to even sustain them for a basic quest period. Some of them can be fixed by dropping some costs and buffing regen(KAA) Chrono's % also would seem to need a beef due to lost % and now even lower mp pool the % gives almost nothing, others such as DmK they have a skill dark aura that costs to much to be even close to effective as it stands now you lose MP using it which is bad. Could be dropped some to compensate for the new MP standards thus making skills useful, when they may not have been and still maintaining the oh well now you have to plan things. As it is you can't exactly plan...more so hope the quest has a healing pad in it somewhere otherwise you're using attack, attack, attack, attack, and only that as your option.




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/24/2015 9:41:12)

Catching up on stuff since I needed sleep.

quote:

@Ash will there eventually be an update where we can sort our bank and inventory into tabs were you have a weapons tab, or helmet tab, ect, for easier organization of all our stuff?

Possibly. That comes down to how much we mess with in the next UI update.

quote:

I would think, with all of these nerfs... boss nerfs across the board? Beating some of them was really tough before, impossible now. I don't think anyone will ever beat Bugged Bone Fire without DoomKnight again. :-( My main concern is not BBF, though, it's story bosses like the infamous When. He was hard before, but now he's close to impossible for a Non-DA, I would think...

I did nerf a few of the more out there bosses, I believe When was one, to make sure you could still beat them with some thought with the crit nerf. If I missed any then they will need to be adjusted as some bosses were stated with 50+ crit in mind and now that you can't have that their health needs to drop some. If you can find any I missed, and make one concise list so it's not 30 people all posting, I'll adjust them down.

quote:

EDIT: Also, the new changes mean Rogue and Cryptic are suddenly very powerful...

Not crazy powerful since they do give up some damage to have that crit buff but yes they are now completely on level with the other classes.

quote:

Is cryptics Paranoia Passive just +0-25 crit flat still? Because that is awesome now rather then being a bit overkill.

Yep. Since it's not from an item it also stacks with the amount you can get from items and will go over the 50 hard cap.

quote:

Weeelll.....thats about 32k gold down the drain for reskilling. Dunno if TK counts as a rouge-class or not ('cause an attack still does melee) but i need about 1k MP for the long fights;

There's not really a whole lot to spend gold on but yeah it is a bit steep at high levels. Certain skills may be locked to melee but most should be "as weapon", if not that needs to be adjusted as you shouldn't be locked in on every skill unless it's based on a base class.

quote:

I don't understand- why does it matter how many weapon types we use? In my warrior I have swords, maces, axes, and a scythe. If I'll understand why I need to choose only one of them maybe I'll search for other weapons.

It only matters on the TYPE of weapon you use. All the ones you listed do Melee damage, the same damage warrior's do. If you try to do Melee damage with a mage you'll do less damage because of that. You want to pick weapons that have the same damage type as your base class so your stat point damage boosts aren't wasted.

quote:

Something I noticed: Armor Closet now has the same bug as Orb of Saving. If you have a weapon equipped and you try to save a class, it will equip the default weapon of that class, but it won't unequip your current weapon. So if your base weapon does 20-50 damage (Kathool Adept) and your weapon equipped does 82-100 (for example), you end up doing 102-150 damage, which is ridiculous.

I'll see about putting the right unequip on both of them to fix that. Half these things never showed up in testing and we used them to make sure nothing was funky.

quote:

Has resistances been buffed? I feel like it has... or is All:-20 really big to begin with?

All -20 was huge to begin with. It's a flat extra 20% damage from ANY element.

quote:

Also, with the wisdom nerf are there plans to update the mana alchemy game? Only healing up to 275 MP felt a little weak even before it to me.

Yep! I mentioned earlier in the thread that once I fix all the bugs that are cropping up from this update I'm going to go back and update the MP Potion section to make the mini-game a bit better, work out any bugs that were never fixed, and tinker with how much they heal overall.

quote:

Question: The HP/MP potion level cap is locked at 40 for everyone? (or it depends on you total END/WIS, or your level, or...?) Because it would help a lot if it was raised a bit. *wink wink* (I'm at level 55, by the way.)

It depends on your training amount and -Health for HP Potions and -Mana for MP Potions. (This second one doesn't exist yet on items but it was always tracked) The training will be poked at as I just mentioned.

quote:

guest dragon only has 10 (or 5?) bonus and no stats from our char so yeah...

I can adjust the amount of bonus he gets as a scaled amount based on player level. That will probably roll out with the bug fixes to the pet dragon when I figure out what needs to be done for that.

quote:

Does this mean it'll do the same in quests where you're forced to use a NPC armor? Say... Deep Void? or Runed Fortress?

Most NPC classes already do way more damage than any class you have access to. I did adjust the health of a couple of the quests but, like the boss issue above, if people can make one concise list of any that need adjustments, not bunches of posts from 30 people, then I can look at adjusting any I missed. There are hundreds of quests, I know I had to have missed some.

quote:

This should make the Ninja armor rather fun to play with.

Now you know why I went "just wait it out guys" when people were complaining about the Block skills. :P

quote:

I'm just a bit concerned that equipment in Dragonfable will become like equipment in EpicDuel, where there is very little incentive to change equipment ever, and the ultimate decision comes down to some silly feature like a skill

It won't be that bad. Even if an item is "offense" leaning the stats on that item will be different than another of the same lean. Two level 80 offensive items will have different stat distributions so you'll still have plenty of options. It'll also allow you to make several item "sets" for bosses and such.

quote:

Is there any chance at all we'll get something similar to this in Mechquest soon? I'm looking forward to that as well. :D

I have to discuss stuff with Blues still on a few things, but yes there is something like this happening there as well.

quote:

A 50 crit. cap STILL seems a little high to be honest, but at least with the balancing of crit-boosting equipment, people won't be striving so strongly to meet this cap as before, unless they sacrifice other stats for a pure crit. build.

That was the intent of it. It wasn't to totally destroy the stat as a whole but to get people to realize that there ARE other stats out there. Now that they are all viable they should be something people try to invest in.

quote:

Now over half of the guides in the guide forum are useless. Yay.

They do need to be adjusted but the math is all there for people to use now. It shouldn't take too long for them to work right again.

quote:

To clarify, is only the crit from items halved? For example, are the crit boosts from Cryptic halved? or the crit boosts from skills? or from luck?

Only from items. Anything from skills or effects still give their full bonus.

quote:

The CHA description at stat training says "increases your pet training and some npc interaction rolls". I think it should be updated to say that it increases pet damage.

I'll poke at that when I get free time. All of them probably need updating anyway.

quote:

There's a reason I invested so many points in WIS despite using a class with low MP costs.

I already answered this but I'll answer it again. Use your mana potions and use the heal pads in quests. Those are there for healing and, as others have proven, you can make it to the end of any quest with plenty of mana. Bosses almost always have a heal before them anyway so you should never need MP going in! Chronomancer is one of the least MP intensive classes there is and you should have no issues at all properly utilizing your resources. You may never come out at 100% MP at the end of a quest but you will be able to finish the quests.

quote:

With KAA, the better solution would probably be to make Brain Drain regenerate a percent of max mp instead of just 23.

I'll look at it. It'll probably get adjusted to something between 5-9% max mana.

quote:

It's like that with most of the classes now...Especially DC/DmK they are almost bad due to the extreme costs of mana needed to even sustain them for a basic quest period.

No, it's not. You're ignoring what I've said multiple times. USE MP potions, USE heal pads. Even on the most mana intensive classes you can make it to the end of quests, even WITH guests, without issues. MP Potion training is going to be fixed, but you have to understand that free casting with no requirements is gone. You now HAVE to think about which skills you use. You HAVE to think about when to use a potion. You HAVE to think about if you should head back to the heal pad. You are not going to get massive MP cost cuts across the board. You might get a few small ones if they are totally out of line but if you choose not to use what resources you have that's not an issue with the patch.




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