RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (Full Version)

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VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 1:36:49)

@W.A.R.Z
that's my point.
If people are unwilling to accept such harsh punishment for choosing such a class then they don't actually want it.
because That is more or less what others have been saying, they won't think twice about murdering their ally unless it affects them through out the game for the choice they made which has reaction in a bad way.

They would have to be willing to suffer such types of penalties for their actions.



monstervet -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 2:54:16)

Well the penalties should come from the staff not our opinions, nothing like the ring worm which gives -100 to multiple elements, perhaps more like Malifacts DOOM -10 light...but then again this stems from my opinion so dont mind it too much.

as this discussion grows in my mind i can only wonder why Aegis, why not something more?

At first it felt like we would betray him, but now..... i feel there is something more, what if Aegis has something more...to offer, a secret, some power, something.

Many people jumped at this opportunity for power regardless of the price, yet those that denied it did so for a friend, now i wonder if there is something more.

Let's wind the clocks back a year. These cops and lawyers wouldn't dare ...... wrong idea
Turn the clocks back to a time WHEN we a Super mega ultra Darkness Dracolich attacked us.

In order to beat it we needed the bacon orb, the quest involving it was difficult during the time, with limited ways of defeating it, Soulweaver + Aegis was one of those options it remains one of the best options for DAs and Non DAs (if you dont have a DC armor or DoomKnight of course)

What if something similar happens again? an enemy weak to ice comes out, but those that have sacrificed him can no longer summon him......
Do not underestimate Aegis, i feel as if he has secrets that Tomix isnt telling us about..........

Would Chaosweaver, Fleshweaver and Soulsmith have "master" versions?

Its interesting to discus even if we dont know if it will be released or not.
Wonder if a Fleshweaver skill will have something to do with Aegis, like Shatter, shield, perhaps ice Storm but flesh wise? Flesh Storm.


Edit
@Dark Lord
at this point i dont mind if they make the class, just that i wouldnt use it or want it, or be persuaded to join the side of "flesh".
Fleshweavers can have there flesh, i'll keep Aegis.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 3:17:11)

so many people saying they dont want it because they wouldn't kill aegis.....why deny an addition to the game thats a choice seriously whats the point in trying to not let us have our fun when it wont effect you.



G.t.h -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 8:09:15)

I also believe that Aegis could just force the hero to devour him so the Hero could be saved from the op powers of Roirr, but that's just a theory [:)]



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 11:13:36)

thats....actually a very good point.



Chaosweaver Amon -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 11:43:29)

Ok, so I think I misunderstood the original question. I thought that Tomix meant every player would have to devour Aegis and get Fleshweaver if the majority vote was for it. Apparently I was wrong. If each individual would have a choice in it, then of course I'll support it. More variety is always better. So it's a definite yes from me now.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 11:54:29)

Actually it's not.
its just a very cheap cop out on how to get around all that 'morality' problems a much larger percentage of people are having with this class.
also it seems one of the main things those who are for it don't seem to want to touch as it would be a huge fly in their ointment is the coding side of things.

they would most likely have to waste time on a class a much larger group of players do not want when they could be trying to put out top notch quests, bringing armor up to the newest engine such as new or revamped skills, and any extra bonus that the class might have(& art?).

lets face it how many of you would actually want that class of armor if you lost access to the Pally armor, only have some of the skills of the Necro Class, & no DK if the other two classes hadn't been fully untrained yet?

also have a -500 to light and good, lose access to change the element of the dragon(stuck to evil), unable to summon it as a guest and or pet, and maybe lose access to some unimportant(side) quest because those npcs would not want anything to do with you?

Also I very much would think that the NPC Tomix would want nothing to do with the one who murdered their soul ally just to gain power.

I think all of that would have to go into play as well in some form or another.
make that choice and suffer greatly be it loss of more than two classes(pally & or DK), lose access to the Dragon in some way as it would not trust the monster that was willing to murder their soul ally for power(whats to stop the player from wanting to murder the dragon if it means even more power?), and so on.

After all if they can lock a couple of classes then they can lock a bunch of them after being triggered.

the point I am trying to make here is if these types of conditions was ever to come in to play with that choice even if it is a permanent -500 to light & good regardless of the armor they are currently wearing would anyone actually want to risk it for the sake of power that they gain from the death of their ally?



Chaosweaver Amon -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 12:19:36)

@VJ: While I personally wouldn't use it, don't you think it's a bit selfish to take away the option from those who would want to? Not everybody cares about having a totally good and moral hero. And perhaps I'm misunderstanding your point, but who said anything about a -500 to light and good or anything like that? The only consequences that have been mentioned (That I've seen, at least) were losing Aegis, and losing access to the other weaving classes. On your point of it being a waste of time for the staff, if they offered it, and the majority of players do want it, I fail to see how it could waste time. AoT is still being worked on, and we just got Guardian testing accessed, all while the staff have been able to continually put out fantastic releases, so I don't quite understand why the situation would be much different if this were to happen.

In short, what is the purpose of taking away something from people who are fine with it, just because you personally disagree with it? If I've misunderstood any of your points feel free to clarify.



Brasca123 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 12:34:48)

well, i kind of understood VJ point, he said that, mainly, people are alright with FW because they don't really care about the consequences, but if there were some consequences that affected them directly they probably wouldn't want it

i don't think those consequences should be implemented however, the consequence is, losing aegis and other weaver classes, and that is it, perhaps something the weaving saga related could happen as well, in which people would be horrified by your decision of eating aegis, and of course, you'd have to complete tomix saga before having access to it, tomix would not work with a FW, i'm sure of it

i'm still against FW and i don't want it in game, but saying that some crazy consequences like, losing access to light weapons will not do, the hero is still good in nature, even if he does something clearly evil like eating aegis, you'll keep sticking to good acts, so you'll still be a good guy in the end, there won't be any more consequences aside from what tomix already said



W.A.R.Z. -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 12:41:41)

I noticed that the last poll let people vote several times so I made a strawpoll here.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 13:01:46)

quote:

mainly, people are alright with FW because they don't really care about the consequences, but if there were some consequences that affected them directly they probably wouldn't want it


yep that is it Brasca123

I still think some very heavy consequences should be implemented besides the loss of two classes and an ally.

Losing just those three things is why they have no qualms getting the class.
however there should be some massive changing events for it to force them to really think about it before going 'meh' don't care, now lets murder our ally wahoo!

which is why I figured if they had to have something like losing access to armor such as Pally and suffer some thing else like a -200-500 against light and good as a good punishment and would be permanent regardless of the class they are wearing.

I figured perfect for those who are so willing to murder an ally.

Still all that is a mute point as people still seems to forget about the technical side of things and the fact that the team already have so much on their plate from putting together quest at the end of each week, bringing armor up to date with the current engine, and tons of more important things on their S.O.O.N that needs to be taken care of before a class many are clearly against for many reasons.





Chaosweaver Amon -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 13:39:03)

Hey, who's to say we choose to eat Aegis? It could end up we confront Roirr and he ends up forcing us to devour him. Tomix did say that it would remain canon if it was implemented. We could be forced into doing it somehow.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 13:46:38)

its just so annoying how people are against free content above all content that would make our hero MUCH more interesting (if it was a forced choice) book 3 is supposed to be the hero's development book and having aegis force himself down our throats (literally) to give us the edge we need to beat an evil we couldn't possibly beat alone before would be amazing. HOWEVER from the things ive seen tomix and ash write it seems like it would be a CHOICE meaning the shooting down of free content (and at last a dark class besides doomknight id actually want to use) makes 0 sense.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 14:02:00)

@Chaosweaver Amon
then the story line would remain undone by those against it.
so do you really think Tomix would make a quest chain that will forever incomplete?
I think not.

@Dark Lord Urmi
See my reply to Amon about it being ether forced or option.

the team isn't stupid and they would never make a quest they know a vast majority would be against.



Brasca123 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 14:12:24)

i think it has already been discussed but... i'm pretty sure the great majority that are up for FW are only ok with it if it's actually a choice, if it's forced on us, through any sort of mean (mind control, needing to do it to defeat a great enemy, etc), than most people would not want it, i mean, anyone that likes SW would lose it just for the sake of a clearly evil class, while i don't support FW i can endure it if there is a choice of getting it or not, but if it's actually forced upon us and we need to eat aegis... i might as well go back to playing only AQ



Almighty Agathor -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 14:17:36)

@VJ, why are you so against it? And, who gave you the power to choose what consequences are needed for players that choose the class? Let the players that want it, get it. Its not for you, so who cares?

Out of 15 votes on the previous poll: 10 are for the class, 5 are against it. That means that 67%, or 2/3 of the voters are for it. While 33%, or 1/3 of the voters are against it. So really, the answer is that more players want it. Now, we leave it to the staff to decide. It is, in the end, their choice to make. Stop trying to make that choice for them. They have their own free will, after all.



god of chaos -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 14:46:14)

^ Can I have a link to the poll?



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 14:48:50)

AA
not everyone voted on the poll as I missed it and a second one so just because 15 voted on it does not mean everyon has.
thus it is a very flawed & one sided poll

as to the consequences I never said I was the one who gets to set it up. I feel something like that would be fair as anyone who chooses this route should face more than just a couple of armors being locked and losing an ally due to murder.



WornDogma -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 15:02:11)

I would like to add that dragon fable has around 300 daily players and a player base of somewhere around 3000. A poll with 15 votes can't prove much for either side.

If fleshweaver is a choice you would most likely devour Aegis in the pursuit of power.
Ex: The hero can't beat one story enemy and the hero tries to push out a higher synch ratio (with a saying do you really want to do this) and ends up devouring Aegis.
I do think there is a chance that Aegis would let you eat him in a bid to give you power to win.

Also a note on it's inclusion not affecting anyone, it does.

Even if it didn't have cost it would affect every player because,the staff have put resources towards it,it lowers Roirr uniqueness,Code to check any class locks and maybe changed dialogue,new equipment to go with the class,Future interactions with any organization or factions(The rose would have a field day if they found out you devoured a soul. This would also,to my knowledge,the hero murdered a sentient being(if devouring a spirit is murder) and if browser games have ratings that need to warn about this kind of thing the staff would need to put that you can kill someone on the website.

All that for a re-skin(that would still look fantastic) of vaal/roirr and a "more interesting" hero(if they would be a hero anymore) does not seem pragmatical to me.

It is ultimately the staff decision if fleshweaver get in or not.



Zork Knight -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 15:05:19)

Pretty sure Roirr is not the only Fleshweaver out there, or Vaal wouldn't say not much is known about them.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 15:18:31)

VJ you seem to think they would drop everything to work on it when obviously it would be done way later....i mean the team has made classes for the end of quest lines before.



dragon_monster -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 15:19:16)

I think its more then 3000 its more like 9000 at least after all this is not a game that you can play all day. So my guess is that most of the 300 players we see are players that stay no more then 30 minutes a day. My calculation says is 14400 if all play 30 minutes a day but I lowered it because of players that play more then that. Hey it could be higher but I will take a pesimistic look and say its 9k.



Alm Nullamors -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 15:32:56)

@G.T.H
Aegis sacrificing himself...? That actually doesn't sound too out there.



god of chaos -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 16:48:43)

Do we actually NEED more classes fashioned directly after villains though?
We have had classes that AREN'T related to villains, such as say Warrior, Mage, Paladin, Ranger etc. These could be very well canon.
We have had classes which a villain had but aren't solely bound to them. Such as say Pyromancer. This COULD be canon I assume.
We had classes such as Necromancer and Death Knight which are often used by villains, but good characters have used them too (Vayle, Caran, Diawe). Since these were story classes I am assuming they are canon nonetheless.
Then we have things like Kathool Adept , Entropy or Doom Knight. All these NORMALLY had were a price on them and were considered non canon.
Fleshweaver is a different matter, with Aegis being a sacrifice required for it. While it might be a change in the way the game goes, haven't we had plentiful classes of straight villainy? Do we need something more akin to that?



raylas -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 17:15:01)

Yeah... I wouldn't want to become a fleshweaver. You need to devour your soulally, think about the ramifications of that for a moment. That is a being bound to your soul, just shy of being a PART OF YOU. And you just devoured and destroyed it. You're basically tearing your soul apart at that point, and DESTROYING, not killing, but outright annihilating a being that trusts and loves you like family.

That's horrific. That's basically what Valtrith did to Serenity, only you're doing it to your best friend.

Add to it the fact that Roirr is doing this, and the way Vaal reacted, it's likely what he did was unnatural in the extreme and probably violates several laws of nature. It may even be some sort of Forbidden magic, and I wouldn't touch that stuff with a 50 foot pole. The name itself sends shivers down my spine and makes me think that it's something WRONG on many, many levels, and it's not something you WANT to become, that it's something that twists the natural order BY EXISTING.

TL;DR, Fleshweaver is less something that should be a class and more an Eldritch Abomination given humanoid form in Roirr. There are some things the player simply should not and will not have access to. This being one of those things.



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