RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (Full Version)

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LadyYennifer -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 17:26:03)

I don't think players are allowed to create a poll. It's for Staff only I believe.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 17:29:57)

@raylas
most that want this class don't care about anything other than what's 'cool' or 'powerful' and don't care about their soulally.

also they want this and they want to get what they want regardless if it is a bad idea.
to me its no different than those that wanted a combo armor which the staff created a quest about why it is a bad idea.

I personally hope they never create this class for the player.

GOC & raylas
you two have really good points.



Alm Nullamors -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 17:44:17)

Some people here need to be more flexible. Even if you don't want Fleshweaver, it doesn't mean you should deny the choice to those who want it.
Honestly, I approve of the class even though I'm still on the fence about actually using it myself.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 18:21:18)

there shouldn't always have to be a 'boss' style armor for every single thing and seeing as this would be 'canon' and cannot be undone is one of many reasons it is a bad idea.




Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 18:59:41)

God of chaos....only two of those dark classes are canon some of us would like to have more canon classes like that.


and Raylas dont use it then, we have the power of a doom knight (which in itself is a tier 4 class) which is the most evil of all and the power of time, weaving flesh is literally not going overboard and would most likely be tier 3.

and VJ its a CHOICE dont make the choice then let the rest of us make that choice! you cant be a mage if you choose warrior its irreversible without dcs -_-



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 19:04:32)

I don't understand why people are still having the conversation on whether or not Fleshweaver should be in the game. The staff (you know, the people that MAKE the game) have already said that you will have a choice to devour Aegis or not. Someone else's choice will not affect your character, so there is no point for you to involve yourself in someone else's decisions. I have literally seen the same 10 people post the exact same thing about 5 times.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 19:07:31)

thank you exactly (while i have been guilty of repeating myself as well)



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 19:10:29)

@^

Yes, but your repeating "to not repeat" so your justified in doing so.



Ash -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 19:13:00)

It's not confirmed to be in. It was a "if Tomix gets time is the idea cool enough to bother with?" Just figured that should be made clear. in case that got lost in the "we want it!" "we don't!"



W.A.R.Z. -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 19:15:48)

I think that the weaving families are like this:
SoulWeaving - You apply your and your ally's spirit through your looms to make yourself be able to attack spirits (Soul energy -> Direct attack to soul) (Kinda like BlackStar and Dr.Stein's attacks from Soul Eater)
ChaosWeaving - You use your willpower to manipulate your minion's energy to directly attack your foe (Soul energy -> Physical force)
SoulSmithing - You condense your partner's excess energy so much that it becomes a permanent physical object (Soul energy -> Solid)
FleshWeaving - You use consumed spirits as energy and you literally just grow some more flesh and manipulate your own (Soul energy -> Food -> Flesh) (Could be used to increase muscle mass, change appearance, repair any injuries you may have, reverse aging, etc.) (Your body would process all soul energy you take in this way so you wouldn't be able to use other weaving techniques because it would "intersect" the processes that they require)

@VJ
It isn't a 'boss' armor so much as you simply using the fourth weaving family.
One thing thing I didn't bring up earlier is "light =/= good" & "darkness =/= evil", which for example Sek Duat is evil, but he uses light.



GreenGuy23 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 19:16:18)

I, personally, think that Fleshweaver would be a very intersetic class, and definitely would get tons of attention from fans.

@Ash I've been meaning to ask you - Who is that in your picture?

My NPC. ~Ash

@Ash Which one? In-Game Ash has brown hair... Or is that an Ash we will see in a future Storyline?



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 19:18:13)

@Ash

You did clarify this point back in the original thread. Didn't you also mention that if Tomix ever does consider this class as a possibility that we would be able to choose whether or not to consume Aegis and obtain FW powers?



David the Wanderer -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 22:45:12)

Nevermind morality (this is, after all, just a videogame), here's why I am against Fleshweaver: it means doubling the work of the staff for every release, every NPC, every little thing that would be connected to it. Everything would have to be written twice, coded twice and animated twice, once for people with Fleshweaver and once for people without it. It means at a certain point, different players will play different stories.

This came up already in a thread about the possibility of including more choice in what the hero does and says: in order for these choices to have meaning, there have to be consequences, which means the staff would have to make different stories for different choices. Even a choice as binary as "kill Aegis" vs "Don't kill Aegis" means huge repercussions on the game, the time and fatigue the staff has to put in it and the complexity of effectively making two games with the resources for just one. If FW was a non-canon class, I'd have no problem with it, since it could easily be ignored, like Kathool Adept and Doomknight, but Tomix has stated that if it will be made, it will be canon, so it can't just be ignored.



lightriftwalker122 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 23:19:24)

If Aegis isnt featured a lot only rarely it would be less work for the Staff . ( for the players who dont want to devour Aegis) I hope FleshWeaver gets made



Zork Knight -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 23:19:38)

@David: I don't think Tomix would've suggested the class and it being canon if he wasn't well aware of that, or had a way to go around that.



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 23:25:49)

Was it ever actually confirmed that there would be another story-line with Aegis? I thought we were done with all that in the Tomix Saga Finale, and now we've moved on to Vaal and Roirr's story.



David the Wanderer -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 23:39:34)

@Zork Knight: Tomix wasn't the one who suggested the class. This thread was started by a forumite, and Tomix just said "If people really want this class, I might make it, but at the price of devouring Aegis.", which is the whole reason for this discussion: does the majority of people really want Fleshweaver at that cost?
And the problem remains: if the choice to kill Aegis or not is canon, that means creating two different timelines, otherwise there is no point in the choice

@Christophisis: Nothing was said if Aegis will ever feature in another storyline, but if the Hero ever gets involved in more storylines regarding Soulweaving, why shouldn't he summon his SoulAlly? Unless he killed him, that's it. What I'm saying is that Aegis COULD be used in other storylines, but that can't be done for players that would choose to kill him, requiring the staff to write basically another storyline, or locking people out of content



time sage -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/2/2015 23:58:04)

I don't know whats the problem here?... People need to understand that "YOU" are getting a choice if you want FW or not. Nobody gonna force you to devour Agies to become FW. People who are against the idea of FW should keep it cool and let the people who want FW to have FW. If you are not forced to devour agies to become FB then why are you guys complaining? Keep it cool Guys....



Brasca123 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 0:15:03)

@greenguy. the NPC ash is talking about is ashendal, not ash dragonblade, he is a ridiculously OP char that appears from time to time, he was created to fix the problem of infinite timeloop on MQ, ash already explained that in another thread, but i don't remember which one, he has time/space distortion powers, infinite power and a bunch of other OP stuff, we might someday know more about him and why is it that he doesn't save the world alone, might be for the same reason warlic does not

@time sage. well, aside from the morality, there is the thing of the staff work, just read David's last 2 posts, he explained pretty well why is it that FW is a bad idea, i think most people that are against it care a lot more about the overload of work for the staff then because of morality, it IS a game after all, we CAN choose to do immoral things, even if i myself would not



David the Wanderer -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 0:19:21)

@time sage: 1) FW hasn't been confirmed to happen. It's more of a "if the staff have time and think enough people want it". People arguing against Fleshweaver are entitled to their opinion as much as people who are pro-Fleshweaver.
2) As I've said, I think this class would put more strain on the staff than any other class made before, influencing future quests and locking out content for different parts of the playerbase. To me, it isn't as much as a matter of morality (although I think even considering to devour their SoulAlly is incredibly out of character for the Hero), as it is a matter of logistics: is it really worth to put the staff under so much stress for something that not everyone wants?



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 0:30:22)

David you bring up a lot of good points and covered better what I had been saying this entire time about coding and wasting time on this class.
And if there is a future quest line with our soul ally and they murdered him, there should be no extra mode for them.
it would be like those without a DA they would not be able to do some of the stuff those that did not murder their soulally.

however unlike the DA they can never get their ally back and thus miss out on any future quest chains with the soulally but then we will see them get angry as theywant to be able to take part in such a quest which they would have no right to if they murdered their ally.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 1:06:14)

VJ you are assuming quite a lot.



VJ -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 1:10:10)

Am I now?

not much more that can be said that David, raylas, & GOC have already said and very well at that.



Zork Knight -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 1:11:35)

Pretty much 90% of this thread is assumptions, because we know next to nothing about the classes so far. Only that FleshWeaver would cost a lot to get. We have literally no info on the impact that implementing FleshWeaver would have in the game, for players and for the staff.



David the Wanderer -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/3/2015 1:26:19)

@Zork Knight: Well, let's look at what we know.
1) Tomix has stated that in order to unlock FW (if it was made), you'd have to devour Aegis.
2) This decision whether to kill Aegis or not would be canon, and killing Aegis would lock you out of Soulweaver (for obvious reasons).

Now, this means that there would basically be two timelines: one where you devour Aegis, and one where you don't. Now, this means that if Tomix ever wants to use Aegis in another story, he either has to rework the story to not include Aegis, or make two different stories, one for FW and one for non-FW.
And of course, NPCs connected to the Weaving stories would have to react accordingly to your choice since it would be canon, so that's either write incredibly vague dialogue or make two stories, not to add the coding part of checking if you have FW or not and changing parts of the game accordingly. As I said, this is a lot of work for the staff, that would slow them down and force them to either make double the stories, write stories where you don't use assets you should have, or lock players out of content. Again, that seems too much work for something that only a small fraction of the playerbase wants.



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