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RE: =AQ= Houses With Estates - Discussion

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10/28/2009 6:05:37   
Sugar
Member

meh......

increasing guard tower to level 15 is stupid. I even question going to 14. The hourly resource hit is not worth it on those two levels.

@Zandor

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=16659668

You may as well get the gold guards dude

Fire dragon
Ice Dragon
Dragon cat
two more Nightraiders
AQ  Post #: 451
10/28/2009 11:10:15   
My Pain
Member

Custom housing coming the 40th of Febtober 3009

Notes:

  • The Dragonslayer class symbol is the class of the homeowner.
  • The writing on the wall is supposed to be graffiti.
  • The airship in the sky is an expansion, maybe each clan could have a tailored transportation that goes to Paxia. It could have a statistic board within it displaying stats of each clan and how many wins you've done against each one and also how many times you have repaired your own clan.
  • The werewolf is an inhabitant of the house's location, I wanted it in the background but no dice. The bat is also a darkovian inhabitant.
  • Warlic is an NPC statue that could possibly be purchased and placed.
  • The rest of the stuff is simply exterior decorations, maybe the Guardian Plaques could be purchased only by guardians or automatically attached to homes owned by guardian characters.

    Enjoy my creativity. : ]
    • AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 452
    11/11/2009 14:04:09   
    COMPACTER
    Member

    		I think it is unfair that the house token increase has been nerf'd beyond help!!!!

    I mean i bought my DME more then a few months ago and i have not even reached the value of it's original price.

    In reality if you purchase a home your value already increases within a few weeks or if repairs are done day's.

    Why was the estates even nerf'd? what was the meaning behind this?

    i personally think since we actually purchase tokens to buy houses or items, guards etc.... we would actually get some sort of bonus or incentive for doing this, i am telling you i in fact am actually loosing tokens from this house
    cause the % of tokens earned for increase is like 1 token for 1 day.


    Very bad on AQ's part implementing a drop in values.
    AQ  Post #: 453
    11/11/2009 14:38:20   
    JMill
    Milling About


    		 The estate interest was lowered for the simple fact that it was way to high to begin with. The issue is that houses were giving away piles and piles of free tokens (the secondary currency that helps to actually keep aq running). And these are not going to "reward" those players who have bought tokens, there are a significant number of players who never bought tokens, just invested in the housing market, and ended up with tens of thousands of tokens.

    With this large amount of free tokens that were flooding the game, Z-token prices started to inflate in response to it. So the two alternatives were to continue inflating the prices of token items (since you would be assumed to have an estate generating tokens for you) and severely punish players who did not buy houses (which would also effectively discourage people to buy tokens as their effective value would drop) or to try to fix what was causing the problem in the first place. Luckily they chose the latter, as it provides for a much more stable game economy, and once again gives people an actual reason to buy tokens to help keep the game going. It's also worth pointing out that this was a quick fix, and housing may very well change further on down the road.
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 454
    11/11/2009 18:10:58   
    SIGMUND
    Member

    		@JMill Your assertion is not true. The house prices benefitted/rewarded the players who had supported the game by playing for years to gain their tokens and the players who bought tokens to invest in housing.

    The 5% interest was right at the time.... to allow people to save tokens for the next stage of the houses. Updates which sometimes/mostly took months to occur. At the time the system was building towards castles which would have cost ~50K tokens? Then the proposed Kingdom which would have required the investment of at least a castle by the proposed 100 players/kingdom.

    The system that was in development was clearly not possible with the current game engine so the Token investment strategy was altered by the staff.
    The interest on houses was lowered to 3% to reflect the new system.

    At the same time new Token items and spells were placed in the game to soak up the imaginary excess of Tokens that some players had accrued due to their wise investments. Investments made by the players to make the Kingdoms an attainable goal.

    The new system for Kingdoms that is now proposed does not require all the tokens that the first system may have needed so even more players have accrued some large amounts of tokens and the staff are still looking for a way to reduce those Token stockpiles.

    To try to deal with this situation the house interest was reduced to 1% and house values will probably be capped at some point.

    None of this deals with item price inflation. Otherwise the token item price inflation would have stopped.
    The new Token items released in the last few weeks would not cost the ridiculous amounts that they do.
    11000 for a miscellaneous item!!!! that is just absurd.

    The token prices are inflated for only one reason.
    The AQ staff need money to keep the game running and pay themselves a salary. I support them fully in those aims.
    I just hope they can keep the game running without asking for a monthly fee.


    < Message edited by SIGMUND -- 11/11/2009 18:14:16 >
    AQ  Post #: 455
    11/11/2009 19:06:44   
    OnuaNuva
    Member

    		Short answer: Worth it.

    You've got over 18 mil gold, and a pile o' tokens there.

    With 7,000 max resources across the board, a max storage shed, and level 10 Mega World Portal, it will not take that many months to make back all of the gold that you spend on those 4 items, along with the boatload of XP you get (I've had a level 8 Portal, level 10 trade hut, and with storage capacity just over the 1-shed limit, I have got well over 100k XP in a war for 'free')

    That, and you never know what else resources could be used for.

    Finally: Museum functionality will be released THIS month. So, make sure its up and running (well leveled, having it attacked to save on resource production is allowed) at max power if it isn't already.

    @Sigmund:
    Here's a quick plan, tell me what you think.
    Facts:
    The token cost of high leveled or 'Elite' items has skyrocketed recently, and needs to be controlled.
    AE keeps full records on all Z-Token purchases.

    Suggestion:
    All Token items that cost in excess of 5,000 tokens (Excluding Housing items) have their cost significantly reduced. I'd expect the Terror items dropping for their 7k+ to about 4,000, the super-ultra-elite spells dropped to about 6,000.

    Players that already owned the items have the sell price raised 80% of the original buy price. This would result in a 'Net-profit', as all token prices have gone down, while preventing the original owners from having extreme amounts of tokens.

    Finally: Token Packages have 50% more tokens. Players that originally bought one are compensated the difference. Guardian/X-Guardian bonus tokens remain as is (meaning the 500 for G and 1000 extra for X-G).

    < Message edited by OnuaNuva -- 11/11/2009 19:14:42 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 456
    11/11/2009 19:16:38   
    atrus
    Member

    		That's a little ridiculous, claiming that you got XP and gold from the war for "free". If you consider that fighting in wars is the only practical use of the house and resource gathering, think about the return on investment. I've invested over 20k tokens in my house, a lot of battling, and close to 500k gold. It will take me many wars to recoup that investment (though I wish I could turn off exp gathering of my army and just focus on gold).
    AQ DF  Post #: 457
    11/11/2009 20:35:34   
    JMill
    Milling About
    quote:

    None of this deals with item price inflation. Otherwise the token item price inflation would have stopped.
    The new Token items released in the last few weeks would not cost the ridiculous amounts that they do.
    11000 for a miscellaneous item!!!! that is just absurd.


    A year ago, a level 89 item cost 10,955 tokens while a level 103 item released last week cost 11,000. That's some pretty crazy inflation there. The reason you're noticing higher prices recently is due to the higher leveled Z items that have been coming out, it's a simple as that. You can't use recent token prices as examples and completely disregard their levels. It just doesn't work like that.

    When token pricing standards were set up, the staff said that the tokens from housing markets were calculated in to the prices being what they were. After the change down to 1%, they said they would reevaluate the prices.

    quote:

    The token prices are inflated for only one reason.
    The AQ staff need money to keep the game running and pay themselves a salary. I support them fully in those aims.
    I just hope they can keep the game running without asking for a monthly fee.


    While I do think that AE has been affected by the recession, I don't think that there's any evidence to show they have recently raised their token prices because of it. In fact, I would argue just the opposite, that recent token items have been slightly lower as of late. However, I do think that is part of why we've been seeing more token items recently.
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 458
    11/11/2009 20:39:37   
    137ben
    Member
     

    		 Perhaps the sellback price for houses should cap at 105% of the original price, but people who already have higher sellback prices have theirs just stop (not go down).
    AQ  Post #: 459
    11/12/2009 7:23:12   
    Traceur
    Banned


    		 I think 105% is too low. If i want to not sell my house for a long time, I should be able to get Z-tokens eventually. at 105%, you would have to rebuy a lot, and you would be forced to waste a lot of time reupgrading your estate.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 460
    11/12/2009 8:19:48   
    maikiejj
    Member

    		105% is way too low.

    that way you can never save up for the next one. .

    on my tertiary i don't buy z's. .

    Just try to save up with buying one.

    and then waiting. .

    but i hope museum is done very soon.
    AQ  Post #: 461
    11/12/2009 8:47:08   
    SIGMUND
    Member

    		As the Captain has stated that there will be no higher priced houses the Cap on House prices would be possible.

    Although maybe this should just apply to the DME and the FME?
    To allow new players the chance to invest in smaller houses and see some return for their investment. (similar to the returns that I and my fellow investers have experienced?) Allowing them to upgrade their houses as the rest of us have been able to do.

    @Jmill
    the inflation of Z-token prices occurred 12-18 months ago. The deflation should have occurred in the last month or two. It has not happened or has not been seen to have occurred?

    I am talking about other things like the Monster Smasher weapon which was always over priced. The Dark Splatter spell which was priced too high etc. In fact any item in the token shop when the house percentage was reduced from 3% to 1% should have been reduced in price by 30%?

    The only items which I can see have been adjusted/deflated were the Nerfkitten Scion, the New DME and New FME?
    AQ  Post #: 462
    11/12/2009 10:29:49   
    Ghengis
    Member

    		Considering the below quotes SIGMUND, It would seem that you are wrong on that part, the changes to the Z-token items are currently in progress.

    quote:

    By Captain Rhubarb:
    We are also in the process of making big price adjustments to many of the high priced z-tokens items. We'll have more details when that plan is ready.
    This is being done because of the change in the house interest system.


    quote:

    By Zephyros:
    We pitched this a little while ago, and Aelthai's been working like crazy for weeks now to figure out the right levels and costs for all of the Z-token items, so I'm glad to see that you guys -- players and others -- are looking forward to it :)


    quote:

    By Aelthai:
    That is exactly why I'm working on fixing it.

    (By the way, if you've been wondering what happened to the Shield sweep? This is one of the things that happened.)

    quote:

    By Aelthai:
    No, we had the Shield sweep almost done, I was going to look at a few of the weirder cases before we were ready ... and I've been working on Z-Token items instead.


    _____________________________
    Post #: 463
    11/12/2009 13:45:39   
    COMPACTER
    Member

    		Bottom line is the increase in value of any estate is way to low at 1% margin, the 5% should not have been nerfed into Critical care. Personally i support AQ in buying tokens and anything else. However after buying this mansion and not even getting it's worth out of it, i have been questioning if at all it was even worth keeping. Still have not given me a logical explanation as to why this was even done.

    You cannot give me the reason in saying it was due to over saturated tokens in the game, as if tokens have been saturated there is only a few ways to do this, however any way used has not been done illegally so why nerf something you have been offering for years?

    You mention everywhere on the site to join is free and earn tokens and whatnot. If you think the freeloaders are getting things for free then eliminate tokens being dispensed to any free member holder and only guardians and x-guardians can use this method. It just does not make any sense to reduce your property value when in actuality the market is hot.

    Me loosing my advantage for others mistakes does not make any sense and you can give reasons all you want but bottom line is there is no logical answer you will ever give me that makes sense.

    AQ  Post #: 464
    11/12/2009 14:50:09   
    JMill
    Milling About


    		 Logical explanation: They want to make enough money to keep the game running and pay at least some of the staff a small salary. It's as simple as that.
    If you're giving out enough free tokens to make buying them seem a complete waste of money, that kind of hinders that goal.
    Secondly, housing put in place to expand the playing experience, it was never intended to be used solely as a token generator.
    AQ DF AQW  Post #: 465
    11/12/2009 15:25:56   
    COMPACTER
    Member

    		Me personally i wanted the increase for only one reason it allowed me to earn enough tokens to spend back into my estate so whatever profit i made i was just reselling back and expanding my land, however this all came to an end when i sold everything to keep maintenance on my property by adding more guards and other things. Now i cannot even earn enough to get what was sold back. To me it is unfair and i am in no way a freeloading player. I just think it was unfair to lose something that was kinda a perk for the players that actually earned this reward.


    I personally do not care for other token items when i can spend gold on getting what i want. If you remove these perks and replace them with rules and mandatory purchase of tokens to gain items or anything else it just does not make any sense.

    You advertise to play the game is free then all of a sudden sorry but it is now only free to register and if you want to play you have to buy tokens.

    Attracting players to the game is offering something for nothing any business owner should know this, for example i sell you a bluetooth headset for X amount of dollars and then personally offer you a free car charger your satisfied and would come back.

    The other hand i sell you that same bluetooth headset and later on come back and say OH i forgot to charge you the taxes for the shipping can you please send the difference of X dollars in order to send your product out. You feel disgruntled and decide forget this place and never come back.


    Do not give me this reason to pay salaries for whoever. This is nothing to do with us, we joined decided to pay the extra for guardianship or X-guardian as i am. That's fine, but to kinda force a difference in the game to lack thereof funds to pay salaries? me personally i would downgrade and either cut salaries or sorry layoff.

    I am sure the staff on this site would offer not to take any money as they probably all have full time jobs anyways.

    I have nothing against the staff and i love them all, i am just stating that doing what was done is like taking a candy from a baby and letting them cry their hearts out. NO Sympathy.
    AQ  Post #: 466
    11/12/2009 17:18:29   
    Biae
    Member

    		I gotta agree with Wen Su here. Staff needs paid, even if they love their job it's no good if they can't pay the bills. Offering Guardianship isn't enough anymore, so Z-token's were put in place. After housing was put in place, it quickly became an overpowered way of gaining Z-tokens in-game. I started with a 200 Z-token tent and now own the most expensive house in the game. So, restrictions have to be put in place to make it more manageable as a system, and become something that provides an extra game element instead of just a way to earn some Z-tokens by not doing anything. Right now, the tokens from house price inflation is an added perk, while there are many other main reasons to buy a house. Temporary weapons, quick potion refills, themed opponents (Darkovia=Darkness battles, forest=Earth battles), portals, and 2 different ways to help out by eliminating some quick waves of enemies in wars for gold and EXP!

    Even without the tokens, houses are pretty sweet.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 467
    11/13/2009 6:48:00   
    Travis Touchdown
    Reality Touchdown!


    		 COMPACTER, as I see it, the AQ team had 2 viable options when it came to this inflation fiasco.

    1: Cut the interest from Houses, which was the single largest free way of obtaining Tokens, and often came at no benefit for the Staff, and was practically unlimited-- nothing like the daily Z-Token cap, or the number of visits you could have to Ballyhoo, which actually makes the Staff a little money.
    2: Leave the interest as is, but hike the prices for every individual Z-Token item in order to keep up with inflation, which would have royally messed over every player who didn't have a House, let alone one's who didn't ride the free wave from the days of Tents and Tiki Huts to the days of Estates.

    And, to be fair? Even as someone who rode the free wave, I would definitely prefer not to mess over a rather large chunk of the playerbase over greed.

    Besides, it's not like Z-Tokens are the only things Estates are good for. Heck, in a couple of months, I assume that I'll have made back all of my gold cost from upgrading my buildings and buying guards, not even mentioning the insane amount of EXP I've picked up over the past 8 or so months. Frankly, it's not as if we've been left with nothing-- in fact, with some of the Estate features, I'd say that the Tokens were small bananas. Tasty bananas, to be sure. But still small bananas.

    Now, I admit that some of the lower level houses feel pretty much useless now with the Token cut, but...
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 468
    11/13/2009 7:23:54   
    jolabong
    Member

    		Housing interest regulation is legitimate. As has already been stated earlier, the purpose of housing is not to generate tokens. Housing has several intended purposes; their collective utility should amount to benefits that more than justify housing costs. For one, storage space(equipment). Secondly, free potion refills(battles). Regarding estates(which is what sparks most complaint -- higher quantitative interest), they have a further handful of uses, including cheaper and more efficient stat (un)training and generation of effectively free rewards during wars through the use of Mega World Portal/Guard Tower. Even if housing uses aren't apparent enough now, they will be in time to come. New updates and features await us -- even now, things like implementation of the Museum's uses are about to become a reality. If anything, this period would be a logical one to enforce this regulation, as housing looks to flourish and become more attractive in the near future(as compared to before, when housing uses were rather limited, perhaps warranting significant housing interest as a bonus). And if any of us feel nonchalant and unenthusiastic about the benefits that can be drawn from housing, they can simply choose not to buy the house. No gain, no loss, no room for complaint. >.>'

    From another viewpoint, it wouldn't be logical(even though this was never LogicQuest) for housing to significantly appreciate in value indefinitely. In fact, housing value should depreciate over time instead of appreciating at all. I don't see how housing interest couldn't stagnate(the benefits of housing would legitimize this quite sufficiently); that it is increasing(albeit slowly) can only be a good thing, if not neutral.
    Post #: 469
    11/13/2009 10:35:22   
    COMPACTER
    Member

    		Thanks Guy's for the explanation, however i still somewhat feel sad. I mean i totally support the game and site in full, i just felt it was not a good time to happen. Maybe it's just me, maybe i am just sulking like a child due tot he fact i seemed to have lost everything on my land when i sold and the change happened and i cannot afford right now to start building the land over, so i sold my plots and purchased Zorbak for my pet which is overpriced in my opinion. Now i am stuck between a rock and a hard place.

    Hopefully i can regain some tokens to afford what i used to have. One thing for certain though is the purchase price to re-sale price on estates is ridiculous i bought the DME for 16k and the re-sale value off the bat is only 14.4k 1.6k difference???

    that is what makes the interest not worth it in my opinion.

    If you buy the house the drop in value should only have been anywhere from 300 - 500 tokens MAX, not this insane 1,600 token loss right from the getgo.

    AQ  Post #: 470
    11/13/2009 10:48:01   
    Spy
    Member

    		When you think about it 1.6k z-tokens is not much- Sure you will have to do some ballyhoo but I guess that is expected eh? :P

    Also I hope the price of z-token items goes down enough yet high enough to be encouraged to buy z-tokens yet not extrenously long if you only do ballyhoo.
    AQ AQW  Post #: 471
    11/13/2009 16:20:59   
    137ben
    Member
     

    		 Compacter, the usual sellback price is 1/3 the buying price, and for houses it is 90% of the buying price. So houses have a VERY high sellback price.
    AQ  Post #: 472
    11/14/2009 6:16:53   
    My Pain
    Member

    		It must take a long time to recoup the initial investment now. I've had my DME for what seems like forever and it's still not worth the 16K tokens I paid for it.

    Seems like a shame for people just starting up. It must literally take years to expand to the biggest house from a tent, without buying Z-Tokens.
    AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 473
    11/14/2009 11:57:30   
    Aca6ar
    Member

    		I agree. I cant ever get a larger house cause it would take about 5 years from the smallest one.
    Ive spent over $120 of AQ and DF alone. So i dont see why i cant have 3% intrest because of freeloaders.
    Im having trouble getting the 250 for a tent. But even then ill never upgrade cause of lack of interest.
    AQ DF MQ  Post #: 474
    11/14/2009 12:03:47   
    atrus
    Member

    		It would be interesting to make a large token purchase/x.guardian perk that you get 3% interest on your house instead of 1%. Or something along those lines.
    AQ DF  Post #: 475
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