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RE: =AK= SC Monthly Rare Mecha Discussion Thread

 
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6/14/2011 20:10:45   
stealthwings
Helpful


http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=15512477&mpage=1&key=�
I made it quite some time ago. The premise was, it does almost no damage, only the shoulders did damage, they did half damage, but it just stayed alive until the minimal damage it did was enough to kill.

< Message edited by stealthwings -- 6/14/2011 20:13:28 >
DF MQ  Post #: 601
6/14/2011 20:35:46   
NaturallyMaria
Ebil Empress


@stealthwings

For main story battles, it'd be drastically overpowered. No normal enemy can kill it before running out of EP. The only exceptions are the Snake Master and Simu-Minion, and I doubt we'll be seeing many enemies like that.

Oddly, it'd be terrible for Assault Mecha. It's completely unable to penetrate the ever-popular Zorbo+EDSP combo, and any sort of iDoT (Lucky/Runehawk Cloverblade) might as well be an instant win against it.

Actually, that reminds me... Does anyone know if the Faerstice purges Cloverblade effects?
MQ  Post #: 602
6/14/2011 21:08:25   
Glais
Member

quote:

When Activated, it gives +35 defense for 4 turns, 3 turn cooldown.

I think this is the main broken thing, infinite defense basically.

I wonder, combining the Body and Head, you MIGHT be able to kill Miracyrina with it, definitely Piotr.
DF MQ  Post #: 603
6/14/2011 21:15:21   
NaturallyMaria
Ebil Empress


Do many of the forum regulars have topics in the suggestion forums?

I have always been really impressed by the links Einhander has in his sig, particularly his mods.
MQ  Post #: 604
6/14/2011 22:24:12   
stealthwings
Helpful


@Glai
How is that infinite?
60 defense. Gives you enough time that you can keep it like that forever, but by no means infinite defense..

@Maria
I don't know if other people have them. I have, on many occasions, gotten bored and made/added to my topic in one of the suggestion forums.
And why would you use it in the main story? Nearly everything is a guaranteed win, you don't need something like that. Also, with defaults, it would not be very good at taking down any enemy who healed.
As I said, nobody says it is balanced. Some say OP, some say UP, but nobody says balanced.

< Message edited by stealthwings -- 6/14/2011 22:27:01 >
DF MQ  Post #: 605
6/15/2011 3:02:03   
Glais
Member

quote:

How is that infinite?
60 defense. Gives you enough time that you can keep it like that forever, but by no means infinite defense..

That's what I meant, I worded it horribly. Though with the 0 Damage it kinda balances itself out.
DF MQ  Post #: 606
6/15/2011 3:51:16   
mechquestlord
Banned


i junction with the BA you effectively have a 120% defence shield. problem zorbo?
MQ  Post #: 607
6/15/2011 9:46:07   
Selutu
Constructive


@steakthwings
Am I really the only who thinks and says you The Shield idea is balanced? Considering the only the shoulders do damage, it balances everything out.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 608
6/15/2011 14:32:25   
Zanzibaarus
Member

It actually does sound balanced when you think about it. The Shield would probably be the first balanced SCMM ever if they considered the idea.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 609
6/15/2011 17:56:13   
Glais
Member

I'm leaning towards balanced to slightly OP. It seems OP in that it almost can't be hit and can heal itself, but the fact that all its attacks together equal 1 attack normally...
DF MQ  Post #: 610
6/15/2011 18:32:15   
stealthwings
Helpful


Last time I said it everyone cried UP based on damage, the people who thought about it said OP based on defense. The people who I asked off the forums said OP based on defense.
Does anyone know a balanced mecha which I could compare it to? I am going to go do some math and see how it does mathematically against perfectly regular enemies. (Enemies who neither buff nor nerf anything and do exactly as much damage as you. It is designed to be completely normal against them. Weird enemies like bosses on the other hand, will be completely different.

Edit: The math I was planning to use is being weird based on the fact that if the effects work the way they should, you heal more than you take. Also, the way I did the cooldowns makes it odd. Changing the cooldowns, and probably nerfing it a tiny bit.
Edit2: The cooldown change hit the shoulders, crippling its ability to do damage, but their effects got better. Cooldown of 5 on the only weapons which do damage.

< Message edited by stealthwings -- 6/15/2011 21:47:58 >
DF MQ  Post #: 611
6/15/2011 22:03:16   
Zanzibaarus
Member

@stealthwings

Interesting...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 612
6/15/2011 23:19:34   
NaturallyMaria
Ebil Empress


quote:

Does anyone know a balanced mecha which I could compare it to? I am going to go do some math and see how it does mathematically against perfectly regular enemies. (Enemies who neither buff nor nerf anything and do exactly as much damage as you. It is designed to be completely normal against them. Weird enemies like bosses on the other hand, will be completely different.


The easiest way would probably be to test against tester02 (ID#22). It only has an FA, which does exactly the same amount as a NSC weapon's base damage of the same level. It also has an incredibly narrow damage range, for consistency sake, and it has no stats to alter the figures.

Assuming you have no stats to interfere, a level 45 tester02 averages 69 DPT with very little deviation (the status screen shows a damage range of 69-73, but I've never seen it break 71 and I have 0 Perception). Mechas around level 45 tend to have around 650 HP, meaning it should kill you in 9 turns if it never misses. However, it has only enough energy to take 11 shots before it needs to skip a turn, so if it misses two turns' worth of damage against you, you start gaining free turns.

Between your JUST you HD and FA, your mecha keeps a steady 65 Defense at pretty much all times. That means your enemy is averaging only about 24 DPT against you. That's only about 266 HP after 11 turns, about 40% of your total HP. At that point, you can pick it off at your leisure; a 2x HP DoT is practically overkill. And that's BEFORE factoring in the FS/BS nerfs or the healing HD, not to mention your Reflex/Perception stats.

More importantly though, a mere two uses of your HD will heal all that and more easily, so you're pretty much guaranteed to be at full health when your opponent runs out of energy. Actually, since the opponent is almost incapable of removing 25% of your lifebar in four turns, a 4-CD head that heals 25% HP makes you essentially invincible. Even against an Extreme opponent, sure it'll take 23 turns to wait out their energy, but you'll never ever drop below 75% HP anyway. And you don't even need to waste any of your own energy, since you can skip over half your turns without penalty.

Of course, tester02 is a particularly weak opponent, doing only 100% damage per turn. Most enemy mechs end up in the 140%-180% range, and old SCMMs just a bit higher than that. But if you run the numbers... Even at a steady 200% damage per turn, anything without Solar Panels still runs out of energy before you die. The only enemies with any sort of chance are those with high passive Bonus buffs, but even then, I'm pretty sure they still lose to your DoT and reflection. It also doesn't help that you're pretty much nerf-proof, since reducing your damage means absolutely nothing, and none of your specials actually need to hit to activate.



< Message edited by NaturallyMaria -- 6/15/2011 23:43:55 >
MQ  Post #: 613
6/15/2011 23:59:36   
mechquestlord
Banned


if that seems a little OP then check out the latest model in my mecha factory! imma go grab the link right about now...

grabbin the URL.

plz comment on what you think.

< Message edited by mechquestlord -- 6/16/2011 0:01:49 >
MQ  Post #: 614
6/16/2011 2:48:07   
Glais
Member

I've been thinking up an idea based of the TransFormer SoundWave and his various Cassetticons...
The idea would be that the body can select one of, I don't know, 3 Pet Drones. Depending on which one you pick, it would completely change the style of the mech and how you were going to use it. I think I'll start a mech suggestions soon, been getting a lot of ideas lately.


Also MQL, your Ultimatum is so broken it would never be made, mostly the Head. +80 Bonus and 60 Boost in one turn is....excessive, I could see the 60 Boost, but I think it's unlikely they'd implement some sort of sniper-bruiser effect like that. Ironically the Shield would probably still win xD
DF MQ  Post #: 615
6/16/2011 3:02:50   
mechquestlord
Banned


whats broken about ultimatium? its not as if it does the warbears 400% dmg on every turn is it?
MQ  Post #: 616
6/16/2011 3:04:16   
Glais
Member

Err....I said what I thought was broken in the post, which was just the Head.
Plus, WarBear's 300 boost was countered in that any slight damage nerf would cancel it out and apply the nerf. So like a -50 nerf wouldn't cut it to 250, it'd go straight to 50...
DF MQ  Post #: 617
6/16/2011 3:05:22   
NaturallyMaria
Ebil Empress


Forget Soundwave, I just want my own little Laserbeak, Ravage, and Rumble pets!

Or maybe just, you know, a recolored Chibi Dragonoid and little Master Blaster. >_>

< Message edited by NaturallyMaria -- 6/16/2011 3:06:09 >
MQ  Post #: 618
6/16/2011 3:08:30   
Glais
Member

That was the point xD Those 3 are generally the most classic so the Drones'd probably be based on those, though maybe 2 for Rumble and Frenzy.
I still need to work out the specials though. Working name for the mech is "Space Angel" due to THIS.

I think a mech being able to choose different ways to be used though would be interesting.
DF MQ  Post #: 619
6/16/2011 3:12:58   
mechquestlord
Banned


if the MQ team did a make your own mecha and customise its spechials you know full well what i would make...

PS ultimatium doesnt have much Hp or EP or EP regen...
MQ  Post #: 620
6/16/2011 3:16:38   
Glais
Member

You didn't put an HP/EP value on it though, and with SCMMs, they all have the same HP which is pretty average so...
quote:

if the MQ team did a make your own mecha and customise its spechials you know full well what i would make...

What would it be?
DF MQ  Post #: 621
6/16/2011 3:25:30   
NaturallyMaria
Ebil Empress


I'd like to see mods used in that way, actually. Say there's a cassette shop (not that most MQ players know what a cassette tape is...) that sells different mods that only affect one particular mech model. The main mech's animations and basic attack effects stay the same, but gain additional effects based on which mod is equipped.

When the "Laserbeak" mod chip is equipped, the mech focuses on speed and accuracy. It gets a passive +10 Bonus, plus +2 Bonus for each default weapon equipped. Its attacks are tweaked to nerf the enemy's Bonus, and it tends to score more crits.

When the "Ravage" mod chip is equipped, the mech becomes a stealthy, evasive attacker. Each part gives a passive Defense buff instead, and it attacks with slightly increased damage and DoTs.

When the "Rumble" mod chip is equipped, the mech goes into crazy offense mode- large but very inconsistent damage boosts, while shattering enemy Defense in the process.

And so on and so forth. Just tossing ideas around, no idea how well it'd work. However, I AM sure that I'd like to see mod slots play a much bigger role in strategy. Just adding a few stat points is almost negligible, really.
MQ  Post #: 622
6/16/2011 3:35:12   
Glais
Member

Yeah, it would be cool for them to do...SOMETHING. It would add a much larger way of customization in inventories depending on play styles.
It would actually kinda change the entire game, for the good.

The problem with the mech version idea is that it'd have 3 different styles, but then it's default weapons need to be diverse to fit that, or they work like MechaTron with alternating specials...
DF MQ  Post #: 623
6/16/2011 5:15:51   
mechquestlord
Banned


i just got a brilliant idea!

DEFENCIVE BUTTER!
MQ  Post #: 624
6/16/2011 5:33:13   
Glais
Member

. . .Butter?
Howso?
DF MQ  Post #: 625
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