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6/16/2012 19:15:37   
zion
Member

Why not keep it as is - even though full vars get 100% - so non-vars have a chance at a decent percentage? I suggest capping at 15 an hour (or less) like npcs to limit abuse.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 126
6/16/2012 19:21:21   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Why not keep it as is - even though full vars get 100% - so non-vars have a chance at a decent percentage? I suggest capping at 15 an hour (or less) like npcs to limit abuse.

i hope u realise how bad the situation is.

lower lvls get beat in solo.
and so they go to team mode to lvl up.
in team mode they are taken to juggernaut.
only to be massacred.

this is bad for business, because ED then is loosing potential customers from those lower lvls if they are always loosing.
specially during that lvl which is the hardest phase to get by when ur lvling up.

thats why it needs to be change. and juggernaut wins are faster than team wins because of its high %
ur average pro in team mode has 70% winrate. if this was the case for juggernaut, then the low lvls players stand a chance, and wont feel like rage quitting after getting beat time after time.
AQW Epic  Post #: 127
6/16/2012 20:38:03   
Angels Holocaust
Member

quote:

quote:

Why not keep it as is - even though full vars get 100% - so non-vars have a chance at a decent percentage? I suggest capping at 15 an hour (or less) like npcs to limit abuse.

i hope u realise how bad the situation is.

lower lvls get beat in solo.
and so they go to team mode to lvl up.
in team mode they are taken to juggernaut.
only to be massacred.

this is bad for business, because ED then is loosing potential customers from those lower lvls if they are always loosing.
specially during that lvl which is the hardest phase to get by when ur lvling up.

thats why it needs to be change. and juggernaut wins are faster than team wins because of its high %
ur average pro in team mode has 70% winrate. if this was the case for juggernaut, then the low lvls players stand a chance, and wont feel like rage quitting after getting beat time after time.


Your forgetting one thing my friend. If the juggernauts aren't winning, there not going to pay diddly squat to this game. The lower lv noobs who are being slaughtered may or may not buy varium. So why chance it? It's better to appease the current players and give them what they want and that's easy battles with 100 percent win ratios.
Post #: 128
6/16/2012 21:12:42   
Mr. Black OP
Member

New levels?
26-30
If you get a 30 you must get a 26 or 27 and if you get a 29 you must get a 27 or 28. The problem last time was getting 2 full varium level 30s. With this if you get one the other enemey won't be too powerful so it balances out in a way.
Epic  Post #: 129
6/16/2012 21:14:30   
drinde
Member

There is another way, IMO.

quote:

Player Matching

Now, the system matches players according to their Levels. As stated in the Enhancement section of my post, the system is extremely flawed. Now, I understand that if they removed level matching and used stat matching in Solo Battles, they'd lose money. SO, what about TEAM matches and JUGGERNAUTS? If the system could pool together the team's Weapon Bonus Stas (WBS) and group them together in the most balanced way possible, balance would be so much better. An ideal situation in my mind would be a maximum of 30 WBS differences in a Team Battle, and 40 WBS differences in Juggernaut matches.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 130
6/16/2012 22:01:33   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Your forgetting one thing my friend. If the juggernauts aren't winning, there not going to pay diddly squat to this game. The lower lv noobs who are being slaughtered may or may not buy varium. So why chance it? It's better to appease the current players and give them what they want and that's easy battles with 100 percent win ratios.

well thats why i suggested they add NPCs.

players pay for gear and play on team mode and the average pro gets 70%.
which isn't completely bad given all of the mode's complications.

ontop of that, add 5 npcs an hour for team and jugger. and it should be better.

if the lvl is increased, high %s will be possible. but only for the most pro players. (which would probably be around 10-15 players tops)

in 2 vs 2 u have some players that have 80%, 86%, i seen another guy with 89%, and i even saw this one guy with 92%.
so as u can see, high %s will be possible. it will just take some serious knowledge of the mode, along with some good gear.

increase the lvl range
and adding NPCs, is a first step.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 22:02:20 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 131
6/16/2012 22:11:20   
Zeoth
Member

Well essentially juggernaut is a "I can't handle having a low winrate so I'm gonna plop steamroll all the lower levels who have no chance against me." Thats exactly what the last leveling fix did for those selfish players who can about a percentage of a online game. A huge mistake really. Sure they have current customers but if they want more of them they can't scare the lower levels away with a continuous stream of juggernauts that will consistently beat them.
Post #: 132
6/16/2012 23:07:57   
rej
Member

I personally see nothing wrong with Juggernaut, consider you have to pay roughly 1,000 varium (or 20,000 credits) to even access it. Varium players get a decent win rate, and non vars get something a little lower. Nothing wrong with that in my mind.

@Gold slayer. I like the Npc idea. Fighting Mirv and Marauder Hulk together would be hilarious. If juggernaut NPCs were added, I would be fine with the maximum enermy level in juggernaut being increased by 1 (25-30 players, in other words.)

< Message edited by rej -- 6/16/2012 23:10:14 >


_____________________________

It is difficult to enjoy your cake when your pants are on fire.
~Dragon of Time
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 133
6/16/2012 23:20:57   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

I personally see nothing wrong with Juggernaut, consider you have to pay roughly 1,000 varium (or 20,000 credits) to even access it. Varium players get a decent win rate, and non vars get something a little lower. Nothing wrong with that in my mind.

yes but the problem is even non vars are capable of winning 100% of the time.

if the lvls were increase where ur average pro gets 70% (like in team)
then it takes some relief off of those poor low lvls. while also giving juggernauts NPCs to compensate more for their low %s

its win win for everyone and ED isn't loosing customers by constantly have them beat to a pulp by a lvl 34 tank CH or tlm.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 23:22:17 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 134
6/16/2012 23:32:23   
FrostWolv
Member

quote:

Your forgetting one thing my friend. If the juggernauts aren't winning, there not going to pay diddly squat to this game. The lower lv noobs who are being slaughtered may or may not buy varium. So why chance it? It's better to appease the current players and give them what they want and that's easy battles with 100 percent win ratios.


Angels Holocaust, I didnt get you?
Are you trying to say that the Juggernaut players who have bought varium has a full right to get 100% win ratio and kill the lower level people to show them that THIS GAME is not meant for them and if they play then these Juggernaut will again slaughter them.

And one more thing if you think that ED devs rely on those few Juggernauts to earn because they buy varium then you are wrong. As you stated the low level player "may" buy varium. the word "may" defines everything. low level people cant do 1v1 effectively because of high level varium players. So low level players do 2v2 in a hope to get a balance fight .... but so many juggernaut are forcing them not to do 2v2. This will result in very declined growth of players to play this game. And let me tell you few points of business more players ---> more income ---> better community, And ya less players who will call low level players noob and you are an example of it. How can you even say these things!!

This is a game and every level players should enjoy it and this game is not bound to Juggernaut players and their 100% win ratio .... I hope you understand Angel what I want to say

_____________________________

Epic  Post #: 135
6/16/2012 23:34:05   
rej
Member

quote:

yes but the problem is even non vars are capable of winning 100% of the time.

if the lvls were increase where ur average pro gets 70% (like in team)
then it takes some relief off of those poor low lvls. while also giving juggernauts NPCs to compensate more for their low %s

its win win for everyone and ED isn't loosing customers by constantly have them beat to a pulp by a lvl 34 tank CH or tlm.


Very rarely can non vars create a build perfect enough to get 100% win rates. They almost always encounter a match up of enemies with builds that compliment each other. (Example, smoke bh + high str merc with physical weapon.)

If the average win rate for pros was dropped down to 70% in juggernaut (50-60% for everyone else) then they would very likely feel cheated, since the original juggernaut match up range for level 33 players was something like 22-25. They payed for something that would be relatively easy, not a harder version of 2v2.

As for your last sentence; it would only be a win-win if the juggernauts benefited out of the change. Decreasing their average win rate by 30-50% is more like a win-massive failure.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 136
6/16/2012 23:36:57   
goldslayer1
Member

@frost
well to be completely fair, low lvls cant do anything right period.
mainly because they rush to buy weapons and dont save credits.

they are lvl 20, and when they become lvl 21, they want a new stronger weapon, and at lvl 22 its the same thing.

so either increase the credits they gain, or make tutorials on how to teach them how to play.

also, i should point out that when lvl 35 comes out. u know how many wins it will take to reach lvl 35 from lvl 1?
ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

a low lvl that has little to no experience. (lets face it, if ur new and ur around lvl 27-29 u know nowhere near as much as lvl cap players.)
9000+ wins is a little bit too much for them. not so much for us active players since an active player can do 9k wins in a month. but they will struggle alot.

quote:

Very rarely can non vars create a build perfect enough to get 100% win rates. They almost always encounter a match up of enemies with builds that compliment each other. (Example, smoke bh + high str merc with physical weapon.)

u would be surprised how many non var tank CHs or tlms beat me in solo.

quote:

If the average win rate for pros was dropped down to 70% in juggernaut (50-60% for everyone else) then they would very likely feel cheated, since the original juggernaut match up range for level 33 players was something like 22-25. They payed for something that would be relatively easy, not a harder version of 2v2.

well to be completely fair, u payed to have access to juggernaut, not to own juggernaut. and it wouldn't be harder than 2 vs 2, it would be somewhat more of a watered down version of 2 vs 2. except u have no bad teammate messing up ur strategy.

quote:

As for your last sentence; it would only be a win-win if the juggernauts benefited out of the change. Decreasing their average win rate by 30-50% is more like a win-massive failure.

and they do benefit. they get NPCs, which only juggernauts can unlock.
it decreases their %. but also gives them easy wins via npcs. and the staff wont loose potential customers from NPCs.

completely getting 100% all the time doesn't really show someone's skill does it? since pretty much any tank with good gear could do it aswell.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 23:42:57 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 137
6/16/2012 23:40:59   
rej
Member

quote:

well to be completely fair, low lvls cant do anything right period.
mainly because they rush to buy weapons and dont save credits.

they are lvl 20, and when they become lvl 21, they want a new stronger weapon, and at lvl 22 its the same thing.

so either increase the credits they gain, or make tutorials on how to teach them how to play.

also, i should point out that when lvl 35 comes out. u know how many wins it will take to reach lvl 35 from lvl 1?
ITS OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <- That made my day.

a low lvl that has little to no experience. (lets face it, if ur new and ur around lvl 27-29 u know nowhere near as much as lvl cap players.)
9000+ wins is a little bit too much for them. not so much for us active players since an active player can do 9k wins in a month. but they will struggle alot.


I agree that the credit system is rather jacked up for lower level players. And increasing credits per battle is definitely a good idea. (It takes about 5,800 wins to fully enhance a weapon with credits. That's nearly 100 hours.)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 138
6/16/2012 23:45:57   
goldslayer1
Member

@rej
quote:

I agree that the credit system is rather jacked up for lower level players. And increasing credits per battle is definitely a good idea. (It takes about 5,800 wins to fully enhance a weapon with credits. That's nearly 100 hours.)

yeah, i made suggestions on the lvl enhancements and the formula for the price is the weapon's lvl by a set amount of credit/varium depending on the weapon category.

250 credits a lvl for the weapon.
a lvl 14 weapon would be 3500
and so on. basically a basic scale for pricing based on lvl.
AQW Epic  Post #: 139
6/16/2012 23:49:59   
rej
Member

quote:

250 credits a lvl for the weapon.
a lvl 14 weapon would be 3500
and so on. basically a basic scale for pricing based on lvl.


That actually sounds like a very reasonable idea. High level weapons would only marginally decrease in pricing, while lower level weapons would suddenly become quite reasonable. This isn't really the place to be supporting pricing suggestions, but still....
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 140
6/16/2012 23:50:40   
FrostWolv
Member

@ goldslayer1

quote:

so either increase the credits they gain, or make tutorials on how to teach them how to play.


thanks for putting suggestions .... I hope Devs gives a look in it !!

Well I introduced 6 of my friends in this game and 5 of them are with level 29 ..... I know I am not an awesome player but I have given them tutorial about this game in my house: from best non-varium weapons for their build to stat progression. Even these players are telling me that coz of Juggernaut they hav no more will to play this game

quote:

9000+ wins is a little bit too much for them. not so much for us active players since an active player can do 9k wins in a month. but they will struggle alot.

Ya its too much but it is a part of this game ... no issues for that !!
Epic  Post #: 141
6/16/2012 23:55:09   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

That actually sounds like a very reasonable idea. High level weapons would only marginally decrease in pricing, while lower level weapons would suddenly become quite reasonable. This isn't really the place to be supporting pricing suggestions, but still....

yeah i also believe credit enhancement should be more lvl based.
this allows a lower lvl to enhance gear with lower credits instead of credits that a super active non var would get.
could be lvl scale, or % scaled.

quote:

Well I introduced 6 of my friends in this game and 5 of them are with level 29 ..... I know I am not an awesome player but I have given them tutorial about this game in my house: from best non-varium weapons for their build to stat progression. Even these players are telling me that coz of Juggernaut they hav no more will to play this game


and how many of those would consider buying varium if they felt the game was fairer?
fairer in terms of not getting plastered to smithereens in 1 vs 1, geting shafted from 2 vs 2 to juggernaut to loose. and all the other team mode complications.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/16/2012 23:56:49 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 142
6/17/2012 0:00:48   
rej
Member

quote:

yeah i also believe credit enhancement should be more lvl based.
this allows a lower lvl to enhance gear with lower credits instead of credits that a super active non var would get.
could be lvl scale, or % scaled.


That would allow lower level players (29-33) to purchase powerful varium gear and enhance it for a slightly discounted price. Not a good idea.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 143
6/17/2012 0:03:25   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

That would allow lower level players (29-33) to purchase powerful varium gear and enhance it for a slightly discounted price. Not a good idea.

u mean thru encumberance. that was a bad idea from the start. its whats causing lvl 30 players with full lvl 34 gear to fight juggernauts.

altho, if the weapon is lvl 34, u should be charged as if it were lvl 34 when u enhance it.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/17/2012 0:04:11 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 144
6/17/2012 0:05:17   
Stabilis
Member

I remember pricing discussions being a safe area for discussion AS LONG AS...

•varium prices are not a topic (unless you compliment prices that you like, hurray for loopholes!)

•credit prices are free to discuss

•cash/money is not a topic

No ranting about prices.

And that's it (I think).
AQ Epic  Post #: 145
6/17/2012 0:07:48   
FrostWolv
Member

quote:

and how many of those would consider buying varium if they felt the game was fairer?
fairer in terms of not getting plastered to smithereens in 1 vs 1, geting shafted from 2 vs 2 to juggernaut to loose. and all the other team mode complications.


Well they do like the concept of game as it is a browser game with PvP feature to play against different players!!
They told me that they cant compete with high level varium players in 1v1 ... so I advised them to do 2v2 and npcs. And now in 2v2 Juggernauts are killing them with an ease ... and if the match goes bit close then Juggernauts are heal looping and boosting their hp.
So these things are discouraging them to play ED

< Message edited by FrostWolv -- 6/17/2012 0:11:15 >
Epic  Post #: 146
6/17/2012 0:09:48   
goldslayer1
Member

@frost
yes speaking of healing looping, i keep saying Field medic should be put on support, and only be used once per battle.
this stop tank CH and tlm from heal looping. theres more of this in the balance thread.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 6/17/2012 0:10:03 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 147
6/17/2012 0:18:35   
FrostWolv
Member

the main problem is ........ if it goes this way then this game will lose low level players and also potential future varium players and there will be slow growth in "increase of players" to play this game
Epic  Post #: 148
6/17/2012 0:20:06   
goldslayer1
Member

@frost
dont worry, the best way to bend someone's will is money. ED will do whats right. (hopefully)
AQW Epic  Post #: 149
6/17/2012 0:21:43   
rej
Member

This dangerously large cup of coffee that I'm drinking just gave an idea to make Jug more fair for the team side.

If the Juggernaut is waiting for his fight, and no lower level players appear in the fight after 10 seconds, the Juggernaut has a chance to fight... another Juggernaut!
This would make some juggernauts very angry, causing them to turn to other battle methods, and thus lowering the Juggernaut population to a healthier level. This would also allow the lower to have more 2v2 battles in peace, which is what they wanted to do in the first place.

Note to self: drink large cups of coffee more often.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 150
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