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RE: Get Rid of Win Ratios

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12/13/2012 18:55:08   
Made 4 Sunny Days
Member

Why not seperate win-loss ratio against npc's and win-loss ratio in pvp?
Then we could have two categories, one for those who like to npc grind for good records (Create an npc wins category in leaderboard, alltime only) and another category for those who like to fight in pvp! Then npc wins won't count toward your pvp ratio.
Personally I don't want win-loss ratio should be hidden or removed, I've worked hard and post goals for myself based on my ratio...right now Im almost at the point where my wins in 2v2 are just about double the amount of losses I have, this is my current goal and I think it would be a shame to see the work I put into thousands of battles just..dissapear
AQW Epic  Post #: 26
12/13/2012 18:55:54   
Nexus...
Member

quote:

What do you guys think of hiding your total battles and losses from other people, and only showing wins in your battle record? (again, only for other people, you could always see your own stats)
We could still keep the win rate on the leaderboards for the most competitive players.


Rabble, I think this is a great idea as long as you give us the option of showing our losses if we want (just a checkbox in the settings or something). This would fix whatever issue ND has with hiding losses (at least partially), because faction recruiters could ask that they be shown the players losses before being admitted into the faction. Overall though, I do feel giving the option to hide losses is a good one, so casual players can play causally (without being judged for their losses), and competitive players can tout their losses as a way of showing how reputable they are.


As far as getting rid of win %, I could care less.



Prophet
Epic  Post #: 27
12/13/2012 18:58:29   
Jekyll
Member

I agree with what Rabble says. I don't want to be restricted by ratios. I would love to use an intersting build, maybe support BH, but at the same time I know I will be no match for the strength BMs. Win ratios do not need to be hidden, but for casual players, the option should always be there. Just my two cents worth.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 28
12/13/2012 20:57:40   
Mother1
Member

Lol I don't this anything should be done honestly. So what if you win loss ratio shows after they remove NPC. It isn't like people have anything to hide or be ashamed off right?
Epic  Post #: 29
12/13/2012 23:14:26   
  RabbleFroth
Member

Not saying we'll do something like that, but if we did we probably would just go one way or the other and not give a per-player option to keep things consistent.

Was something I had thought about, was curious how you would feel about it. Has some pros and cons for sure.
Post #: 30
12/13/2012 23:20:32   
Remorse
Member

Win ratios don't constrict people from using creative builds...

Some people are acting like it somehow does.

If your the type of person who thinks win ratios should be removed, why not just ignore them and also what people think about them, this way the people who like to achieve a nice win rate can do so.


and PS. you wrong about STR builds being able to have high win% they should do in theory but STR builds are the most heavily influenced by luck unlike creativity which usally can avoid it to a higher degree.

Epic  Post #: 31
12/13/2012 23:22:56   
goldslayer1
Member

@rabble
although i have 93.2% ratio, i personally would like for ratios and losses to be removed, or not be shown to anybody.

the reason why is, ratio makes me seek out the most efficient build, it doesn't let me be creative and just try random stuff that could end up being weaker because i would end up getting tons of losses if i used a weak build.

angels holocaust who has a 97.4% ratio also suggested for losses and ratios to be removed. (first one to suggest it as far as i know)

ratio IMO is holding people back from being creative and only using OP builds to maintain ratios, instead of trying to be creative.
AQW Epic  Post #: 32
12/13/2012 23:36:34   
Lady Blue
Member

quote:

ratio IMO is holding people back from being creative and only using OP builds to maintain ratios, instead of trying to be creative.



who doesn't want to win a lot?
of course i will be sticking to my OP build rather than trying your luck
in creating an epic fail build just to say you are different from the others

build is just 20-30% of the game, playing smart is how you win the battle
Post #: 33
12/13/2012 23:36:48   
Remorse
Member

@ Gold
If its holding you back then just ignore it, and ignore what people think.

I can tell those players who are creative and they often dont always have high win%s.

As NPC wins get removed I think win % will hold less and less of an opinion of how creative someone is.


Plus if balance is sorted right as I think it will as it is sounding.

My guess is it will be the creative builds that will dominate and you shouldnt have to switch to the next best power spamming class.


< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/13/2012 23:37:58 >
Epic  Post #: 34
12/13/2012 23:37:31   
  RabbleFroth
Member

quote:

ratio IMO is holding people back from being creative and only using OP builds to maintain ratios, instead of trying to be creative.


Agreed. I like being able to ignore the competitive aspects when I want and we definitely want to encourage creativity and experimentation.

That said, I also want people that enjoy the competitive aspect to have nice metrics to compare to other players.

Figuring out a way to allow both types of players to co-mingle and feel good is something I would like to work towards, especially with the upcoming changes to NPCs.
Post #: 35
12/13/2012 23:41:21   
Remorse
Member

^ The idea of less stats and flexibility means I think people will be able to be as creative as they wont and remain as successful as there smarts and straetgy lets them.

Back in beta and early gamma this was the case and Power builds inhibit this now I believe because of the extra stats.
Epic  Post #: 36
12/14/2012 0:34:46   
FrostWolv
Member

Well my post is bit different than other ... maybe I should have posted in suggestions

Anyway ..... What if we dont show loses and present the record like this :

[ ] [ Battles] [ Total Wins %] [ Daily Wins %]
[ 1v1 ]............X.........X..............X...............
[ 2v2 ]............X.........X..............X...............
[ Juggernaut ]..X.........X..............X...............

< Message edited by FrostWolv -- 12/14/2012 0:37:14 >
Epic  Post #: 37
12/14/2012 0:57:49   
Mysterion.
Member

I totally disagree with rabblefroth and all his followers.
This is a game guys, and you play a game to win.
So, yeah you lost, heads up and move along.

And to win, you already need to be creative in build-making.
All factions already look first at your wins and losses, so they can see if youre good.
And you want to be able to hide it?

This is the only thing that can prove that youre actually good in something, and you want to remove it?
No thank you.
Epic  Post #: 38
12/14/2012 1:02:47   
Rayman
Banned


 ^
It doesn't prove anything, I can have 1000k Losses and 1100k Wins and still be better, Much more better player than someone with 50000k Wins and 2k Losses.
AQW Epic  Post #: 39
12/14/2012 1:21:50   
Mysterion.
Member

Rayman, if you have that much losses, you were really, really bad in the past.
So no, i can then not call you a good player.

Epic  Post #: 40
12/14/2012 1:25:39   
goldslayer1
Member

@mysterion
or maybe u weren't lucky.
AQW Epic  Post #: 41
12/14/2012 1:53:15   
Angels Holocaust
Member

It's been 3 years since I joined this game. I haven't had fun at all because I've been worried about my ratio. Our ratios are what separates us from the bad players. I constantly have to buy new weapons and class change, it's gotten to the point where i just don't play anymore. The reason why people are outraged about the loss of npcs is because it will affect our win ratios, all you're doing with this update is alienating the players away from the game.

Think about fighting npcs this way. We have people who eat burgers with ketchup, some eat them with mustard, and some eat it plain. What makes one choice better than the other? Nothing, fighting npcs are the same. Who are you to question my play style? If you take a look at the people who are against npcs, they don't play this game at all. I have more wins than all the people who criticize npcs on this forum. That's kinda sad and that's where the problem lies. The devs go and get advice from the people who don't play this game or just do so for 5 minutes a day, I have the greatest win ratio on the all time board and I'm willing to give it up for something this game has been lacking for 3 years and that's "fun".
Post #: 42
12/14/2012 1:59:17   
Vypie
Member

@mysterion

What about the difference in credit players vs varium players? Does that mean a credit player is less skilled?
In omega the gap will disappear, but the win-loss ratio will still be visible. If players find it difficult to join guilds because of a lower ratio for example, that means the past keeps affecting the present.
In that case, the ratings do not represent if a player is skilled or not.

But anyways.
From now on we will see how it goes, with more fairness and balance into the fights, Omega will reveal everything. Slowly, everyone's ratio% will represent reality, but still, player differences will still be affecting the percentages.



I suggest a ratio% for real player skill, where only the last 300 battles played count. This way, you would know how good you are doing in terms of performance, and your (Miserable/credit/varium/newbie/Npc farmer) past would not taint the views of your skill. Because you are as good as you are right now, and that's what matters.

I have been a credit player for ever, and if were no gap, the amount of wins-losses would be much different.
From omega and beyond, things will change, and I would like my ratio to actually represent my skill.

< Message edited by Vypie -- 12/14/2012 2:12:01 >
Epic  Post #: 43
12/14/2012 2:06:05   
Jekyll
Member

quote:

It's been 3 years since I joined this game. I haven't had fun at all because I've been worried about my ratio. Our ratios are what separates us from the bad players. I constantly have to buy new weapons and class change, it's gotten to the point where i just don't play anymore. The reason why people are outraged about the loss of npcs is because it will affect our win ratios, all you're doing with this update is alienating the players away from the game.


Angels has pretty much summed up the main argument anyone can put forward regarding removing win ratios. I want to have fun, yet I don't want to be seen as a 'noob' for having 20k wins and 10k losses. It's rather interesting how I want to have fun, yet I don't dare to. I hope the staff seriously put into consideration the removal of losses from our stats.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 44
12/14/2012 2:07:12   
goldslayer1
Member

@angels
well said angels. i too would give up my % for more fun.
AQW Epic  Post #: 45
12/14/2012 2:09:16   
Yo son
Member

@Angel, do you honestly want me to believe that i get to see your pretty face in game game again if win ratios are removed?
Post #: 46
12/14/2012 2:10:44   
goldslayer1
Member

@yo son
she already plays daily (sort of) she's just not as active as before. but she plays :)

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/14/2012 2:12:31 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 47
12/14/2012 2:12:10   
Vypie
Member

@angel
Because I was not a payer, all this time I didn't really care about ratios. And I can say for sure i have much fun playing! I have played many games very seriously, and i was VERY CAREFULL not to lose EVER, and so I prived myself from some aspects of the game, and how it was intended to play. It was stressful, to say the least. I stopped playing these games.

In my suggestion, It would make ratios% interesting. A loss would not ruin it forever, and instead, it would show you real current skill. Only the last 300 battles would represent that ratio.
We should keep the current Win-loss, but shift the focus away from them! They would remain as statistics, and what players would look for would be the new ratio system.

< Message edited by Vypie -- 12/14/2012 2:13:35 >
Epic  Post #: 48
12/14/2012 2:15:48   
Mysterion.
Member

Angels holocaust.

No one says you need to buy the new weps, no one says you need to class change.
You want it yourself to be good, am i right?

If you want to have fun, go and have fun.
No one is stopping you, only one that does is yourself, because you wanted that record.
Not us.

I already have fun, expecially in Jugg fights, and i still win.
Because im creative and dont need the best gear or class changes to do it.

Only one who is holding you back, is yourself.
No one can stop you to make another build or lose a lot and have fun.
Epic  Post #: 49
12/14/2012 2:19:11   
goldslayer1
Member

@mysterion
theres a big difference from a player whos warlord and probably plays 20-30 wins a day to a player who has 100k+ wins.

she's a competitive player in a competitive faction, ur not.
AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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