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RE: =AQW= PvP Discussion Thread

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2/7/2017 11:34:59   
Dracojan
Member

quote:

Blaze Binder would wreck a rogue.
its funny how you chose a broken class which has no avoidable skills... of course you will beat an unhittable class with unavoidable skills.
such game mechanics as hit, crit and dodge are just useless, meaningless and make no sense when classes dont use them at all.

^you are quite right about the meta shift and where it will be shifted but mana management will not really be a thing. all classes with mage mana regen already dont gain much mana at 5k hp and about all just count mostly on the 100 mana they start with. all the others that already stay stay at 100 mana all the time will continue the same way. the only classes that may need mana management are some warrior type classes. warrior right now cant gain much mana and counts mostly on the starting mana to stun, defend and try and burst vs 1500 amulets and vs 3000 warrior needs to not use defend and/or stun to have mana for damage. with some classes even if you only invest in your damage and dont use your other skills you still may land only non crits, run out of mana and just stand like a duck. blaze binder, as much as its praised here, is one of these which can deplete all its mana without even wasting on the shield and just lose. thats of course when players have high hp (+3k amulets), int shield, passive and/or active damage reduction skills, and heals.

on top of what you mentioned, skill effects will become much less relevant than pure dps and hps. why would you stun an enemy for 4 seconds if it takes you a minute to kill. if we have 100k hp as somebody suggested, a single duel will last forever.
DF  Post #: 126
2/7/2017 17:20:21   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

its funny how you chose a broken class which has no avoidable skills... of course you will beat an unhittable class with unavoidable skills.
such game mechanics as hit, crit and dodge are just useless, meaningless and make no sense when classes dont use them at all.

Blaze Binder isn't the only class that has unavoidable hits, nor the only broken one.

I dont know what changes have been done to the old classes, but every class was beatable in the old PTR and bludrutbrawl.
Rogue was a popular class back then, and I used to beat it with Ninja and Warrior.
Dragonlord could do it too, but you had to stay out of melee range most of the time.
Berserker was a lot harder because its unavoidable hit was actually its weakest option, but I've still seen it done.

The point is, all these classes could beat each other back then. And PvP was more reliant on player skill rather than class.
Now its hardly the case with the stronger classes. It literally sucked the fun out of PvP.

OP/UP discussion removed. ~Shadowhunt

< Message edited by Shadowhunt -- 2/8/2017 0:04:55 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 127
2/7/2017 17:26:43   
Dracojan
Member

^ my point exactly. and rogue isnt the only unhittable either.

in ptr the none of the stats were this broken and unavoidables, even though they existed, were not overwhelming dmg for no cost.
DF  Post #: 128
2/7/2017 20:20:51   
NovaBlaze
Member
 

 Blaze binder is obviously the best 1v1 class of all time with only Vot and LMBA being even close to it. It's a failsafe 100% accuracy RNGless class that has a full burst combo requiring no brains or anything that deals easily over 6000 damage. How can this class be bad?

The proper way to play against blaze binder is to stall out the hit chance reduce and burning ward's reflect duration, but doing that is absolutely impossible because of BB's upfront burst. This class never should have been a burst mage, it should have been a DPS AOE mage which you can actually realistically stall out the damage and hit it when it's vunerable; like abyssal angel.
AQW  Post #: 129
2/7/2017 21:44:01   
goldslayer1
Member

@Novablaze
We're not saying its bad, we're saying its powerful.
You can stall out the damage as much as you want, but so can the blaze binder by hitting and room hopping.
All he has to do is get the hit in and run to the next room while letting the DoT do the work.
And worse of all, BB has a stun and effective HoT. Absolutely ridiculous...

OP/UP discussion removed. ~Shadowhunt

< Message edited by Shadowhunt -- 2/8/2017 0:04:24 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 130
2/8/2017 11:28:47   
Dracojan
Member

quote:

Blaze binder is obviously the best 1v1 class of all time with only Vot and LMBA being even close to it.
i dont agree at all. most magical classes, especially those with damage reduction, heal and stuns can beat it easily. the damage of blaze binder isnt as high as you make it sound. and the class cant regen enough mana to keep its skills going for long.
its still one of the strongest classes for duels alongside lmba but vot is many tiers below them.
im having much higher win rate with ah. ah has a much higher dps at much lower cd, stronger and more spammable shield with reflection and has a very chaotic stun that can disrupt your enemy. the passive hit chance increase also makes it competitive against unhittables.
it may be obvious to you but it is not to anybody who has enough experience with all the classes.
DF  Post #: 131
2/8/2017 16:34:43   
NovaBlaze
Member
 

 I said 1v1 pvp. Even in BluBrawl it's completely possible for BB to run into 3 people and 1v3 without beating a sweat and come out with over 70 mana.

You can't roomhop if you're stunned. And the stun rate is like 40-70%.


Yes, you can stall out a BB. Because most blaze binder spammers are only capable of button mashing and can't adapt. PLay against a bb that can adapt like Bella X fighter and you're done unless you specifically counter. Or outnuke it.

I am perfectly aware it's possible to beat BB, by playing extremely tanky classes like Archpaladin, Drain tank legion paladin (Essentially legion paladin but you don't hit skill Shadowlight spear. Do not use it under any circumstance), Stonecrusher, but a BB that can manage his mana doesn't lose to anything other than RNG.

Outnuking isn't fun. But the meta in 1v1 and bludrut has come to nothing strategic thanks to damage creep. It's literally a clownfiesta of 'Who crits harder with 0-60 weapons' and praying to RNGesus. Skill? Matters, but not always.

My highest win rate class is undoubtedly abyssal angel, not because it's broken or blaze binder/ah levels of strong . Because I play it very well.

< Message edited by NovaBlaze -- 2/8/2017 17:08:38 >
AQW  Post #: 132
2/9/2017 22:24:28   
friend18
Member

What's LMBA? Do you guys mean LBMA as in Legion Blade(m)aster Assassin?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 133
2/10/2017 11:57:50   
Dracojan
Member

^yes. we are just mistyping it really well.
DF  Post #: 134
2/14/2017 17:11:16   
stealth2953
Member

For Bludrut Brawl, which class should I use? I think Pyro and LC are the only viable options, as BB and other burst classes obliterate me.

_____________________________

Playing since 2012. Made no progress -_- :

http://www.aq.com/character.asp?id=stealth2953

Best crit: 9.6k on Pyro
AQW  Post #: 135
2/15/2017 6:48:06   
MQ dude
Member

How do you beat an expert AH as a VHL? Nuking them asap doesn't seem to be an option, but I can't seem to be able to outlast the mirror skill.
Post #: 136
2/15/2017 7:07:39   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


 I haven't had any troubles vs all the AHs i have faced. If you want to be really safe i guess you could use some Fighter enchants, possibly a Necklace*, start off with Shackle (as you always should) and just wait untill he has burned all his burst and mana, then nuke him or just heal up aftwarwards and laugh at him.
The Mirror Shield actually lasts for a relatively short period of time, so surviving through the shield should be fairly easy with 5k+ hp and all that damage resistance.
*I'm personally kind of sceptical about using a Necklace on VHL because of the higher HP costs, but i guess it depends on matchup.
AQW  Post #: 137
2/15/2017 18:32:42   
MQ dude
Member

Thanks, but why use Fighter enhancements if the haste bug has been fixed?

EDIT:
@Xtream
Ty.

@Metakirby
Thanks again for the detailed explanation. c:

< Message edited by MQ dude -- 2/16/2017 5:34:56 >
Post #: 138
2/15/2017 19:15:14   
xstreamshadow
Member

Fighter as an enhancement gives more strength aka more health.
AQW  Post #: 139
2/16/2017 5:05:37   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


 ^
It's the Endurance that gives more hp, but close enough.

The Endurance helps you survive burst damage, the Strength gives you more healing, although the extra healing on Highlord's Gaze is the most relevant part.
Also, with fighter Enchants, it helps out vs reflects in general, because Shackle will deal less damage in return (you still pay more hp, but the extra healing on Highlord's Gaze makes up for it).
AQW  Post #: 140
2/16/2017 9:14:12   
Falleno
Member
 

 Is PVP unpopular these days? I always seem to wait endlessly until someone challenges me or when I queue for a 8v8 brawl...
Post #: 141
2/16/2017 9:18:11   
ChaosRipjaw
How We Roll Winner
Jun15


 Nah, the queue doesn't work quite as well anymore, that's all. Just enter /join bludrutbrawl or whatever pvp map and you'll find yourself in a full fledged 8v8 brawl.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 142
2/16/2017 11:10:58   
orc orc orc
Member

Maybe it's just that players just /join bludrutbrawl straight away instead of using the queue. Especially since it's buried beneath the game menu.
Post #: 143
2/16/2017 18:20:20   
stealth2953
Member

What class should I use in bludrut to get more kills?

_____________________________

Playing since 2012. Made no progress -_- :

http://www.aq.com/character.asp?id=stealth2953

Best crit: 9.6k on Pyro
AQW  Post #: 144
2/17/2017 7:41:15   
MQ dude
Member

So, have any of you beat Great Thief with VHL? Fought my first one twice yesterday. I knew it had crazy dodge chance, but seeing it first hand just made my jaw drop. Wiki'd it and apparently they regen mana and hit on dodges too. And people call VHL broken...

__________________
(@Offtopic: How do I insert a linebreak?)

@Stealth

BlazeBinder can take down groups of enemies (good for halting the enemy's advance) but it takes longer than LC to kill enemy NPCs. The longer it takes = more risk of being killed before downing the NPC, but hitting it with everything you have also leaves you with not much mana left.

Kills don't necessarily net you a win on Bludrutbrawl by the way. (It's certainly useful for deathpitbrawl quests, but nobody goes there now.) Your LCis a great solo class, good for killing enemy Brawlers fast, which increase your team's points faster than killing Restorers. Just try not to charge ahead blindly after dying, and wait for at least two players or more to catch up so they can defend you while you focus on fighting NPCs.

< Message edited by MQ dude -- 2/17/2017 8:47:46 >
Post #: 145
2/17/2017 8:02:03   
Metakirby
Constructive & Helpful!


 VHL is broken and has pretty much no specific counter class, if any, i dare you to find a class that can consistently, or just semi consistently kill VHL that doesn't blindly run into reflects and plays around stuff like LBMA and Soul Cleavers, because as long as you can get shackled up before they hit you with any hard hitting skills, you have pretty much won.
Great Thief can be countered by BB, Shaman, Evo shaman and a well timed LBMA nuke (this one is kind of iffy though).
There are ways to counter dodge, there isn't really any way of countering a tank like VHL with huge amounts of hp, amazing damage reduction and amazing healing, as well as 100% hit skills.
I have only fought against 1 Great Theif, in which I almost got him. I would think, if you can just keep out of range, use Shackle + Highlord's Gaze and prevent yourself from auto attacking him, then maybe finish him off with an Unshackle + Shackle combo if you think he is in kill range, you should be able to beat him. This is just a theory though.
AQW  Post #: 146
2/17/2017 8:48:46   
MQ dude
Member

Well, I see your point. This was very childish of me, but GT seemed almost unbeatable and that annoyed me. At least I now know GT's not completely invincible.
Hopefully I can test that that theory sometime.
Post #: 147
2/17/2017 12:21:30   
The ErosionSeeker
*insert cheesy pun here*


 GT is still virtually invincible at 98% dodge rate, coupled with the unscrupulous few who use potions or water of life.

With a static weapon, you can still batter them with Shackle -> Unshackle -> Shackle loops with Gaze in the middle, since autohit autocrits are impossible for that class to dodge.
Probably the best counter is LBMA because you can just drop to low HP and then instantly slash them for 7k, although VHL has a significantly better matchup against nearly everything else thanks to that 70% damage soak that shuts down almost everything else.
DF AQW  Post #: 148
2/18/2017 11:26:25   
stealth2953
Member

@MQ dude

What about 1v1? Which class that I own would be best at that?
AQW  Post #: 149
2/18/2017 11:45:25   
MQ dude
Member

LC is a great class to use. Personally I'd recommend you get Archpaladin too, because its nuke can be just as powerful in PvP and it has a damage reduction skill as well.
I don't know which one is better to use though, so hopefully someone more knowledgeable can answer.
Post #: 150
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