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RE: =AQW= Class Discussion Thread

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2/2/2019 7:11:35   

^ DoomKnight can use Dragon Lordís Lifestealer skill effect added to Soul Stealer to help regen health back faster while not being too intrusive toward Void Strike damage. And instead of 20% crit buff to Blood Offering, split it 10%, one half goes to a rank 4 passive, the other half remains on Blood Offering. Both changes will help greatly with farming regular mobs as well as increasing soloing capability of the class.
Post #: 226
2/2/2019 7:43:11   
you stop

I think I'd second having the 10% extra Crit on the rank 4 passive instead, or as a rank 10 passive. I think power word die-esque rank 10 passives are the most useless things in the universe, so much more useless than meme-ing No Class best class. As for the healing of 2, I think ye, it'll do well to behave like DragonLord's 4.
AQW  Post #: 227
2/2/2019 10:56:53   
Hardcastle McCormick

I have Dragon Shinobi but not Arcane DC. How does the peak DPS of each class compare?

Also speaking of buffs on DoT based classes, when I renewed membership recently I was hoping DeathKnight had turned into a competent DPS option, but I was a little disappointed in that regard.

I also found that despite Prismatic Clawsuit F I N A L L Y getting the mana regen change I had asked for about 5 years ago, its crit and hit chance stats still hold it back from a real contender. Its damage with StoneCrusher or Frostval Barbarian is actually not bad at all, but in a group environment itís probably still outclassed by the more mainstream DPS classes since it doesnít debuff enemy defenses.
AQW  Post #: 228
2/2/2019 23:47:29   
Edme MacHeath

I believe arcane should be faster if it's actual final DoT amount is unchanged. It's DoT was significantly higher than post buff Dshin.
I don't own the class though. I only saw videos of it back then. I do know that there was comparisons made and Dragon Shinobi pre-patch won because of shorter stacking time and it's rank 10.
It's damage and 2nd DoT helped it aswell.

Dragon Shinobi just feels weak now to be quite honest. I honestly think it was better before the changes. I mean it's better short term by far. But I don't think the class really seemed designed to be used in short term. It just feels awkward now.

Honestly I'm not noticing much of any difference with Artifact Hunter. Infact it may even be more or less the same. They removed the ability for supreme arcane spell to crit which actually can potentially lower the DPS, because it had almost 3k+ with NSoD and it's now stuck at 1.5k. I mean it gained like 400-500 non crit damage and the ability to autohit. But it also kinda just seems worse because if you got doom, your crit chance was around 40%. And with a spiral carve you could add 10% more. It's not like the class had low crit chance. It relied a lot on doom but it had the potentially to see some nasty crits with supreme arcane burn. I guess they did increase the DoT, but it doesn't quite make up for the lack of crits entirely. Perhaps on average the damage is about the same, I highly doubt it really changed the DPS much, even if it did increase it.
The decision to reduce it's mana cost was probably necessary if they removed the ability to crit.. It has mage model so it relies on crits to regain mana.

That was such a small change and I'm not entirely sure whether it was a nerf or a buff or really even either. It just seems like it more or less changed how it worked rather than buffed something.
AQ  Post #: 229
2/3/2019 4:35:04   

I messed around with the new arcane caster changes.

I don't really remember what the final DoT amount was before with pre buff arcane. But with the current arcane, I reached 5712 at max stacks while looping 5 and 4. And if it needs to be mentioned the DoT from dark leech for me adds 449 on top of the max stacked DoT.

Achieved with all level 90 wiz enhancements.
Post #: 230
2/3/2019 6:22:37   
Edme MacHeath

It was almost exactly 4k at lvl 65 on the main DoT. So it doesn't sound to be changed really.

It's significantly higher than Dragon Shinobi's DoT output, although I'm not sure how the regular damage output both classes put out really compares
I suppose DShinobi can always hope for a rank 10 and that can significantly speed it up, but i'm not sure how impactful rank 10 is now that you can't see 18k DoTs.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 2/3/2019 6:23:01 >
AQ  Post #: 231
2/3/2019 20:02:28   
Legendary Ash

I maintain a document of class skills values, I'll list the changes of Dragon Shinobi and Artifact Hunter.
S is stack number and SP is spell power.
The division that occurs to the total is the number of ticks the DoT is delivered in.

Dragon Shinobi
Lv 79 Example values used for comparisons
132 DPS
289 Str*2+60 Luk*.7 = 386.1 Attack Power
30 Int*2 = 60 Spell Power

Shadow Kunai
Old: ((100%+S*100%) DPS + (14%+S*14%) SP)/3 per tick, S is capped at 60, 20% chance of applying Spinning Dragon.
=11133.72/3 per tick at 60 stacks
New: ((157.5%+S*320%) DPS + (28.85%+S*48%) SP)/5 per tick, S is capped at 10, no longer has a chance to apply Spinning Dragon.
=12242.33/5 per tick at 10 stacks
Both: Impact is 80% DPS
= 105.6

Chi Heal
Old: 2000% DPS + 200% SP
New: (3260% DPS + 280% SP)/5 per tick
=4471.2/5 per tick

Shadow Soul
Old: 90% resistance and 7 sec self Stun
New: 80% resistance and 5 sec self Stun

Flaming Dragon
Old: (1575% DPS + 160% SP)/8 per tick, 50% chance of applying Spinning Dragon
=2827.5/8 per tick
New: (2137% DPS + 215% SP)/8 per tick, 100% chance of applying Spinning Dragon
=3834.79/8 per tick
Both: Impact is 160% DPS + 16% SP

Artifact Hunter
Lv 79 Example values used for comparisons
111 DPS*258 Actual Autoatk/244.5 Panel's Autoatk = 117.128 DPS
154 Str*2+139 Luk*.7 = 405.3 Attack Power
312 Int*2+139 Luk*.7 = 721.3 Spell Power

Supreme Arcane Spell
Oldest: 70% DPS + 35% SP Impact, (180% DPS + 75% SP)/3 per tick
=384.94 Impact, 860.00/3 per tick
Old: 80% DPS + 46.5% SP Impact, (170% DPS + 107% SP)/3 per tick
=496.19 Impact, 1125.27/3 per tick
New: 99% DPS + 127% SP Impact, (111% DPS + 133% SP)/3 per tick
=1215.22 Impact, 1281.21/3 per tick

Shiny Mirror Shield
Old: 80% resistance and reflects enemy damage for 6 seconds
New: 40% resistance and reflects enemy damage for 6 seconds

Oldest: (600% DPS + 34.5% SP)/3 per tick
=1001.39/3 per tick
Old: (600% DPS + 77% SP)/3 per tick
=1369.25/3 per tick
New: (808% DPS + 74% SP)/3 per tick
=1748.50/3 per tick

Would someone with Arcane Dark Caster like ArchNero perform the following to collect the new skill values?
Build 1: Class and Weapon be both Wiz enh, unequip Helm and Cape
Build 2: Same as above for Class and Weapon, but equip Healer enh Lv 78 Helm and Lv 88 Cape
State Weapon DPS, Int and Luk values for the two builds.

Record values for each stack of Envelop in Darkness per tick, and state number of ticks for a single application of the skill with two different builds identified by Build1 or Build2.

< Message edited by Legendary Ash -- 2/3/2019 20:15:23 >
AQ  Post #: 232
2/3/2019 23:33:44   
Edme MacHeath

It's honestly hard to consider Artifact Hunter either buffed or nerfed. It lost about as much as it gained.

I honestly preferred it before. It had double the resist, and the DPS was more or less the same, it's probably slightly higher on average now, I guess? But it lost a lot too.

@above: I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion of like 12k over 5 ticks but that's not remotely accurate. I'm stuck at 1.3k per tick unless the rank 10 occurs.

DoomKnight actually is faster than LDK with enough crit nukes. That's pretty terrifying actually. I only needed 2 crit nukes vs Onyx Lava Dragon to match LDK or even pass it up.

It's definitely an option for members now.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 2/4/2019 0:04:45 >
AQ  Post #: 233
2/4/2019 1:22:53   
Hardcastle McCormick

I havenít gotten to test it yet but that Doomknight change seems incredible. Itís like giving the class 2/3 of a stonecrusher buff.
To top it all off the addition of self-damage actually complements the 4 skill.

Theyíve indicated that they arenít finished making changes to Artifact Hunter yet, so hopefully theyíll add something else to counterbalance the lowered defense.
AQW  Post #: 234
2/4/2019 5:31:11   
you stop

That's the thing with DoomKnight that i've noticed. on average, it just hits about as good as glacial berserker but assuming a lot of crits happen, it can more than surpass Legion Doomknight. The only condition to be satisfied for it to surpass LDK is to crit often, which is very possible considering the crit rate is slightly above 55% assuming Spiral Carve and 5 is up. The 5 trials I did at the previous page, 3 of them showed GB speeds while the two went LDK speeds. VS lower HP bosses like Onyx Lava Dragon, it's very possible to get really good speeds since HP isn't something you worry about so you can just regain a lot of HP from 2. From here, getting to 55% crit rate is very easy.

The problem I encountered was VS Queen of Hope was maintaining these conditions: maintain enough HP for 5 and be low enough for high nukes (like 15-17k) while not risking dying to a crit from the said monster before getting enough HP from 2. I still think it needs a bit more tweaks, maybe get more HP from 2 more than anything. Mana regen wise, of course this class will be much more amazing with Mage Mana regen but the duration of 2 makes it really easy to maintain mana anyway but yea, I sometimes go out of mana if I don't mind my durations but that's a self mistake more than anything.

< Message edited by you stop -- 2/4/2019 5:34:00 >
AQW  Post #: 235
2/4/2019 7:16:42   

Is AH shield really 40% now?
I thought it was still 80 and the 40 was just a typo?
Post #: 236
2/4/2019 12:08:05   
Edme MacHeath

I honestly thought theyíd buff the heal on doom knight instead of these changes.
Now Iím actually concerned a good heal would make this class ridiculous with the new buffs.
It would make managing HP levels way easier. Assuming the heal isnít too strong. You kinda want a life steal to do more 200-250ish hp anyways. It honestly feels you are always losing just slightly more hp from a boss than you are gaining by healing. And now with the price of 5s hp cost you need some kind of net positive gain to ever use it more than once or twice.
So I think buffing the heal just about more to where youíre not just managing go levels effortlessly but gaining a net positive would be fine.

I hate what they have done to artifact hunter. Iím going be honest I think they ruined it. Itís a nerf in my book. The class is worse overall. 40% resist alone is massively less.
AQ  Post #: 237
2/5/2019 5:41:22   
you stop

I actually do not hate DoomKnight's Rank 10 passive. I was doing 110k crit autos and I just thought I was doing a 10k spiral carve crit then I rechecked Ultra Akriloth's HP and it was way below where I was expecting it to be. It happened within the first minute of me fighting him, and his HP was already 300k~ level. The Rank 10 Passive proc-ed twice. I guess this was lucky, considering this is the only time I've seen it through a couple of tests but still, it's pretty funny. I still hate low chance Rank 10 passives though, like how often do they occur to even make a significant difference, as opposed to additional stats?
AQW  Post #: 238
2/5/2019 6:51:40   
Edme MacHeath

I think rank 10s are completely flawed and the only viable ones are static buffs. Ones that occur more frequently are fine depending on what they do.

VoTs does occur pretty often but I'm honestly not sure it's really better than if it had 10% more of something.

Dragon Shinobi's is huge too and I personally think it was significant enough of a effect to be justified over a static value but I'm not sure anymore since the changes.

Honestly I'm not sure some are even legitamately worth it even if they procced super often. Paladin heals everyone but is that really a big deal? It kinda clashes with it's regular 3 person heal.
On one hand, you could have a group of more than 3 people, but relying on a rank 10 to heal everyone isn't really a good idea, on the other hand a 3 person team or less makes the rank 10 even more useless, you already have a constant heal for all 3 of you, that fully heals on crits, I mean I guess it's nice to know that your rank 10 fully heals no matter what, but it's so rare to happen, and I struggle to justify why it'd really be valuable in a 3 person group that's already constantly being healed by paladin's regular heal, especially when a boss divide's it's attention between 3 people. I somehow doubt your team is ever gonna take enough damage for it's rank 10 to be at all valuable. The only way I can see it being valuable is against a challenge boss but I highly don't think people are gonna be using paladin because they'll be forced to use classes like archpaladin instead. They won't have much of a choice to use paladin and even if they do, what are the chances the rank 10 is gonna occur and how helpful would that really be towards defeating that challenge boss? I didn't think so. It could literally not have a rank 10 and I wouldn't really care.

Probably overanalyzed paladin's rank 10 but it is legitamately near useless.

< Message edited by Edme MacHeath -- 2/5/2019 6:52:39 >
AQ  Post #: 239
2/5/2019 7:48:45   
you stop

I would suppose that extra Heal is a bit useless.

For the definition of "huge change", I think it's safe to argue that 10% is a justifiable amount. It'll just be on the likes of Awe Enh, specifically Spiral Carve. 15%, and it'll be on the same chance as Mana Vamp and HP Vamp. Having a Rank 10 passive that will just occur on one kill out of 100 is just plainly dumb. It's just speeding up a kill once and really, you're stuck as if you were a Rank 5 class.
AQW  Post #: 240
2/5/2019 7:55:15   

I would frankly prefer if we were told the rates that the "Random chance" rank 10 passives have in first place, I wouldn't even mind if they are 1%, as at least if the rates are disclosed, at least you know what to expect out of the passive.
AQW  Post #: 241
2/5/2019 9:12:35   
you stop

If it was 1% might as well be 0% lol I understand the rationale of putting rates but it doesnt change the fact that it contributes so little that it might as well stop having a Rank 10 passive
AQW  Post #: 242
2/5/2019 16:54:46   

It's more a matter of knowing how much I can count with that passive, having a rank 10 passive so bad it might as well not be there isn't a big deal to me, StoneCrusher doesn't have a rank 10 passive at all and it is still an amazing class, but knowing if I can count on that passive or not is actually important.


Regardess, onto some news!

Arcane Dark Caster's skill set is returning! And on top of that, Evolved Dark Caster is meant to be buffed/reworked, and it is getting its skill set re-released as well!

Frankly, I am very happy to hear that rare skill sets are returning, specially in light of how good I hear Arcane Dark Caster is now.

< Message edited by Veya -- 2/5/2019 16:55:04 >
AQW  Post #: 243
2/6/2019 5:53:53   

Just hoping they don't forget to give the same love to Legion Evolved Dark Caster, the Legion Token variant of the Evolved Dark Caster. Would be a bummer if they forgot about that variant while having released things for the non-Legion Token version
DF AQW  Post #: 244
2/6/2019 12:05:37   

Guess it's time to farm 6k Legion Tokens after I get Paragon pet

Really happy with this. I've never gotten a 'caster because I was never part of the legion upon this point. Really good news!

< Message edited by Elemec -- 2/6/2019 12:06:47 >
AQW  Post #: 245
2/6/2019 16:30:46   
Hardcastle McCormick

Wait so just to be clear, we're getting Evolved and Arcane Dark Casters back, plus a new dage class?
AQW  Post #: 246
2/6/2019 16:47:56   
Legendary Ash

We are getting the skillsets of Evolved and Arcane Dark Casters back with new art for the new named class, maybe new animations depending on what Alina chooses.
AQ  Post #: 247
2/6/2019 16:49:13   
Constructive & Helpful!

As far as I know, we are getting:
An Evolved Dark Caster class variant, available for LTs and ACs.
An Arcane Dark Caster class variant, 99% chance of being ACs only.
Owners of the original class variants will get the class variant with the updated art for free.

I don't know where you have heard of this 3rd class.
AQW  Post #: 248
2/6/2019 17:55:52   

I will just say... since the new armor looks like a variant of Arcane Dark Caster look-wise, why not give the new EDC variant Ultimate Dark Caster looks? UDC is a variant of EDC, it's already a seasonal armor, and it would prevent both new classes sharing exact same looks, which could be confusing to some people to tell which is which.
AQW  Post #: 249
2/7/2019 1:14:02   

Any news if it's gonna be a permanent/seasonal addition or is it just for this year's birthday?
AQW  Post #: 250
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