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How did he became the apprentice of an almighty being as Kathool? Did Kathool left him with any damage? No but seriously i want to see a flashback him learning with Kathool.

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"Destiny's Progenitor" makes me think of Drahr'Hatir, and the colour scheme aligns with that pretty well, but the weakness to Fear might throw that off.

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But I can't even begin to connect this with the ??? Fragments

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Looking at Sk'aar's dialogue from Adventure Friends is certainly interesting. They talk about wanting to be free from a "prison", from "purgatory". And they seek to consume people in order to do that. Could this explain Remthalas' goal? Does he intend another god to challenge Aequilibria? If Sk'aar is imprisoned within dreams, then a layered, shared dream may be deep enough to reach them. And it wouldn't be enough to simply try to feed us to Sk'aar, as we have the power to influence the dream (especially since we have Lock and Key and Myalos on our side!), so we would need to hand ourselves over willingly, thus Remthalas' attempts at manipulating us.

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Thing is I'm pretty positive Destiny's Progenitor is still referring to the Aequilibria as a whole since it is labeled as "Progenitor". Drhar'Hatir, who while rocking the mostly white color aesthetic and breathing white flames, is presumably a previous, perhaps the first, incarnation of Fluffy which doesn't really line up with it being a progenitor of destiny or destiny itself in that description since you have the Elements(altogether) and the Celestials both of whom are supposed to embody Destiny (alongside Order and "Good") and would have come long before Drhar'Hatir.

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To back this up is that weakness to Fear damage as we recall it was the combined might of the Infernals and Celestials pouring all their resources to put Aequilibria to sleep. Resources, namely themselves, that would have been shaped into pure raw mana to power and fire the Exalted Artillery. Pure mana, that's not influenced by elemental energies, has strong ties to that Fear. There's also Notha's pop-up dialogue if we choose to side against her which state that together that the core ideas that the Celestials and Infernals embodied 'becomes their Fear' just as she's blasting a rather familiar beam of magic that does fear damage.

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Though I'm not sure about the us willingly handing ourselves over to Sk'aar part even with Lock, Key, and Myalos on our side (even at this point in the war) as Sk'aar showed he had a nasty habit of devouring others while they were isolated from us before the end. It could be different this time since this is a shared dream and Uaanta and Notha are not poorly put together dream versions but it feels like if we were the only ones needed then those two would have been consumed already to not have to deal with the trouble of having them around....unless we're being lured into a trap as we get closer to Remthalas' dream.

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I should have suspected there was going to be a tragic angle to all this in the end. I'll be honest with you when the Avatars said that Remthalas was a former devout of Kathool, and the little bits of his true self shined through, I assumed that much like the followers of Lovecraftian cosmic horrors that Remthalas himself was mad but was not clearly not mad enough to the point his ambitions for himself were stifled after leaving Kathool's service. I assumed that he even managed to escape being physically deformed like the cultists of such Eldritch Horrors and avoided ending up like the Adept Water Elves from the Water Orb Saga. But I was wrong and horribly so. This entire time I thought Remthalas mentioning how terrible he was at communicating was just a quirk of his, but no. The reason why he could never truly make sense of what he wanted to say is because the reality simply was that in the deep recess of his mind he was crippled. And just like the cosmic cultists it was Kathool's doing. Should have known something was up when Myalos' portion of the war said Kathool was looking back at us.

Or more accurately Kathool's desire to be free from the events of the Reset but also the constant cycling of Creation and Destruction on Lore. The horror in all of this is that Remthalas was likely doomed the moment he became Kathool's devout. The fact that Remthalas quoted Kathool, stating that "we had come before", which referenced the time when the MQ hero had defeated him in the yellow duckie ship tells that either the remnants of Kathool's madness was deeply influencing him already or that Remthalas had seen enough of Kathool's memories to know this information. Even worse, there was no stopping the insanity from getting worse, as evidence by the line of a "seed planted, a seed awoken" save for possibly when the Avatars locked him way with the other Maleurous in which case they might have helped him or at least bought him some measure of time. Remthalas' will was no longer his own at the end at the very least that much is certain. He was not free.

This certainly explain his impatience to get to Aequilibria. Whether the goal was Kathool subtly pushing Remthalas to "devour" Aequilibria or because Remthalas felt the madness within him growing was justification enough to force us to help him control Aequilibria to help him with kathool's madness is the part I'm not sure about. Either way you can see how desperate he was to be saved in those inverted fractures. He was terrified and wanted someone to save him.

And can I just say the slow reveal of Remthalas' Eldritch form is coolest thing ever? It's just so hauntingly beautiful. So epic.


From Remthalas' madness, we've learned that there is a counterpart to the Aequilibria known as "Whispers". A thing that embodies the very concept of Doom. Something that appears to have not have been targeted at all during the war of the Exalted, or if it was the Exalted Artilliery didn't work on it or didn't work on it for long. Which likely means it has strong ties to the Infernals and/or the Shadowscythe. Whatever the case it's clear from Remthalas' boss fight that Kathool seems to hate both the Aequilibria and this Whisper for producing the circumstances it currently is forced to exist in. Which makes sense as he's tired of reality changing on him so quickly that he's had enough.

Alas, in the end, Remthalas lays dead and defeated, his dreams dashed and the question of the freedom of his people unknown to him. As tragic as it is it was probably the best act mercy we could provide him in his state. I do like that Notha and Uaanta were able to come together and say a little prayer for Rem though. I also imagine that despite their differences near the end that Notha was genuinely upset that Remthalas had to perish.

As for Remthalas body, do you guys think we'll deliver him to Aquella's people? They may not have been of the same tribe but they might be able to give him a proper burial for a water elf.

Bravo once again devs.

< Message edited by Vaalirus -- 6/3/2022 12:01:44 >

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Let us find tranquility.

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miss Remthalas he was a villain sure but one who was really sympathic and fun and the fact we couldn't save him made me really depressed. I guess Kathool's hold was too strong on him but It's still a huge bummer we never saw his earlier life and his reason to turn out this way (maybe next quest?). I was suprised the quest ended with dealing with his body though. I guess next we get the epilogue quest dealing with the rest of the stuff? For one moment i got so exited thinking the hero would be told about the reset and their would get enlightened

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It was Kathool. Of course. I counted him out because he was asleep but... well. Now "Awakening" and "Rebirth" make perfect sense. A fantastic fight and a fantastic finale. And fantastic feels as well! ;-;

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From Remthalas' madness, we've learned that there is a counterpart to the Aequilibria known as "Whispers". A thing that embodies the very concept of Doom. Something that appears to have not have been targeted at all during the war of the Exalted, or if it was the Exalted Artilliery didn't work on it or didn't work on it for long. Which likely means it has strong ties to the Infernals and/or the Shadowscythe. Whatever the case it's clear from Remthalas' boss fight that Kathool seems to hate both the Aequilibria and this Whisper for producing the circumstances it currently is forced to exist in. Which makes sense as he's tired of reality changing on him so quickly that he's had enough.

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I think there's a point people are missing here - Remthalas describes his "Whispers" as though they shouldn't exist in the universe. He specifically phrases things as though The Whispers were something that happened during the Great Reset, like they either took that as an opportunity to sneak into the universe or got dragged into it somehow. I'm not sure that would fit the bill for either the True Shadowscythe or an ancient Infernal deity. I'm almost wondering if it's actually Chaos, based on his 'there are three/there are four/there are so many more' line, but that doesn't feel right either.

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It looked to me like he didn't just disintegrate or fade, but like he... unraveled. Into thread. Soul thread. Could be nothing, could just be good attention to detail, could be important, idk.

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From Remthalas' madness, we've learned that there is a counterpart to the Aequilibria known as "Whispers". A thing that embodies the very concept of Doom. Something that appears to have not have been targeted at all during the war of the Exalted, or if it was the Exalted Artilliery didn't work on it or didn't work on it for long. Which likely means it has strong ties to the Infernals and/or the Shadowscythe. Whatever the case it's clear from Remthalas' boss fight that Kathool seems to hate both the Aequilibria and this Whisper for producing the circumstances it currently is forced to exist in. Which makes sense as he's tired of reality changing on him so quickly that he's had enough.

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I think there's a point people are missing here - Remthalas describes his "Whispers" as though they shouldn't exist in the universe. He specifically phrases things as though The Whispers were something that happened during the Great Reset, like they either took that as an opportunity to sneak into the universe or got dragged into it somehow. I'm not sure that would fit the bill for either the True Shadowscythe or an ancient Infernal deity. I'm almost wondering if it's actually Chaos, based on his 'there are three/there are four/there are so many more' line, but that doesn't feel right either.

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"Whispers" relate to the Shadowscythe. Of this I'm sure. Doom weapons whisper to those that wield them. Caitiff whispered to our dragon. Whispering seems to be the Shadowscythe's deal. And they could be what Remthalas meant when he talked about something "sneaking" into the universe. Before the Reset, the Shadowscythe were aliens that came from another dimension. Even after the Reset, that's still kinda the case. He might've meant that the Shadowscythe were indeed a force of Doom that wasn't suppose to exist in this reality, but since they were here when the Reset happened, they got pulled into the new version of reality along with everything else.

B u t . There might be a problem with this. When he talks about the thing that sneaked/followed in, Remthalas is holding his hands around the light of his little lure. I'm sure this is intentional. It doesn't make sense if he's referring to the Shadowscythe while holding his little light, right? So what "light" could he be referring to? Possibly the Hero. Whether the Hero is an intrinsic part of the natural order or not, they are undeniably a force of Destiny. The soulthread that Lock and Key took from us is a familiar hue of gold, and corrupted them because it opposed the symbiotic Doom energy that gave them life. In Mechquest, the Hero opposed the Shadowscythe. Kathool watched this happen. In Dragonfable, it's the same. But Different.

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body to his people? To his parents? I hope we get to speak with them and they tell us a little about him, little backstory like what kind of person was he, what made him turn out this way etc.. Can't help but feel really bad about Remthalas, he can't see that his people got free, can't we just ask the Reaper to let it see, i mean Serenity got to speak with us so can't we just ask a small favor and just let Remthalas see how things got resolved?

I wish we could see how Valrith came to contact with the members of the Maleurous and how he sealed them away, some of them are quite powerful and well Valrith was strong but nowhere near that strong. I also wonder when the spirits got released from Valrith's soul how much villains/spirits got released, it can't be just the Maleurous guys there was way more spirits escaping. I'm still wondering if there was some more problematic/dangerous creatures released on lore and will it bite us in the ass later or if they are just less powerful no name enemies or maybe not everyone of them was evil and there was some helpful people released too.

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consumed by Valrith

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So, was this to imply that this was always going to be the end result? I never had the notion that Remthelas was mad (certainly not kathool mad), for he always seemed like someone who had "escaped" the clutches of Kathool. I saw him driven, as the "true" threat that the Avatars saw.

In this finale, it made me think that this particular deep dream was unintentionally unbiased. It would take things from everyone's memories, regardless of who it was, even Remthalas.
Hence his unraveling.

Notha said it and thats what gave me this inkling: "You got lost in your own dream, didn't you?"

For us it was Serenity, Tomix and the rest but I think Rem would have gotten the whole blast of his history, including that of Kathool. All the "escaped" he was (as I see it) would have been undone because of the revisit. The dreams may have been dreams, but those dreams were still real. At least based on the damage they inflicted I'd say.



But I will say that I enjoyed the progression of Uaanta's character, and a little bit of their "devolution"? If you will. (Caring isnt the opposite to evolution, but she's old. She's a grandma. How much more can her character "Grow", y'know?)
She cares enough that she questions if there was something more they could have done. She joins in the prayer with Notha. She says so herself, that she has changed compared to what and who she was before.
And Notha - Mad scientist with the heart of a child. I love it.
The cannon, "Boo", the prayer and her grim acceptance that things are sometimes out of control, despite their best efforts.


Myalos. Now... His "flashback" is very interesting and I will say no more about that, till we see the epilogue. Reading some of the comments both here and in the other thread, I'm now thinking that he was looking at the Shadowscythe invasion. Or AN invasion.

Kathool was the first time it felt like the reset had more weight to things, but this... this blows that right out of the water and makes you stare directly into its face.


I'm not happy either that this ended with his death though. None of the maleurous... How do I say this?
Xan, Konan, Warlic (of sorts), Drakath (of sorts), Sepulcher, Jaania and others... They all were "saved" in one way or another. But some of the Maleurous were... too far gone?
Sinnocence, maybe.
Nameless felt like an unnecessary death to me. Like others said, a little too quick.
I'll need to replay the other quests, because I dont remember why the others were killed.
Myalos being the only "survivor", and Lock, Key and I suppose, Notha, being the defectors.

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What happens now? In the sense that... the last few years' Friday the 13th wars have REALLY picked up since the days of Zorbak and the random horde of Undead. I feel like we've reached a point where the bar itself has been raised. I'm looking forward to it. :)

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It's also pretty insulting to waste several minutes on each attempt just to get wiped out by an enrage timer.