RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (Full Version)

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Dragonnightwolf -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/17/2009 4:03:12)

Yes I believe delaying the quiz would be a good idea Falerin.

As for us not posting Eldron's answer. That's because we haven't quite figured out the proper method of solving it yet.


To answer the question asked above, we're working on at least 3 different puzzles. 2 of which are in word format and we still haven't figured out what the heck that weird eyeball-picture thing we got is.



Eldron -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/17/2009 8:59:26)

[OOC]

*SIGH*

The "one-eyed" creature is Dark Matter from the Kirby Video game. The meaning is simply that I was trying to point out that Kirby was on track.

/OOC



tobi728822 -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/17/2009 9:00:14)

@ Eldron man I should of realized that. I just got Kirby 64. /facepalm



Eldron -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/17/2009 9:04:38)

You have, I believe, 2 puzzles currently. The second is a hint for solving the first.



Dragonnightwolf -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/17/2009 11:58:11)

(ooc) I'm an avid player of games with nintendo, but having never played a kirby game, you can see why it would be difficult to recognize that character eldron)





Verlyrus -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/17/2009 13:43:40)

Seeing as 157 has to do with the enigma key, is it possible that 'space' and 'keeshish' do too?
Perhaps the plugs for the enigma are S P A C E K E E S H I S H? hehehehehe... 'space keeshish'.



Lkeas -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/17/2009 14:36:12)

I am having issues with consistency across various Enigma simulators, in that one simulator may give me one answer while another will give something completely different. Is there any chance we can at least know which simulator was used to create the ciphers?

Also, can we assume that the plugboard was not used?



Eldron -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/17/2009 15:26:54)

Puzzle number 2.

Yes



Lkeas -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/17/2009 17:46:54)

I've been reading up on the Enigma machine and it looks like you're supposed to encode the key into the message:

1) Sender chooses a message key, e.g. CODE (or a three-letter key with the M3);
2) Sender sets up the Enigma according to the daily key and chooses arbitrary initial wheel positions for encrypting the message key, e.g. WPOS;
3) Sender enters the chosen message key (CODE), notes the outcome (say, IPXH) along with the chosen wheel positions, like "WPOS IPXH", and puts the two groups of letters in front of the coded message (without coding them again, of course).

Did you do this, Eldron? If so, then we would take the first part of the cipher:

VONY MJJY

Where the first 4 letters are the positions on the machine to decrypt the second 4 letters into the keyword to use for the rest of the cipher. But it doesn't seem to be working on any of the simulators I've used so far.

Which is why I asked which simulator we're supposed to use... does "Puzzle number 2" mean that the answer to that question is found once we break that second cipher? But how do we do that if we don't know which Enigma machine to use for the second one either?

Okay last question for now: Is puzzle 2 even an Enigma cipher?



Eldron -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/17/2009 20:37:14)

Exactly, you can't, and no in that order.



Lkeas -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/17/2009 21:03:06)

Thanks [;)]

So we need to figure out what type of cipher the second puzzle is first. The groupings of three might be significant, or it might be a red herring to confuse us. It may be simple substitution or something else. The numbers might be a clue to solving it, or might be part of the code itself as well. This might take a while...



Eldron -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/18/2009 9:47:13)

There are any number of things you can do if you space yourself a bit.



yopomo -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/18/2009 14:21:30)

jees wow umm this puzle rackles my brian lol in all seriousnuss you guys are stupidly smart



Phoenix Angel -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/18/2009 18:07:51)

I'll try to assist now with this puzzle, though I have not used a cypher before, I'll see what I can dig up.
....Now that I think on it the last time I had done something Truthseeker-ish was quite a long time ago.
Better make up for lost time.

....and I knew that was Dark Matter, maybe if I helped out sooner I could have told that to people.
Oh well, Time takes it's natural course.



Verlyrus -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/18/2009 21:32:02)

To me Eldron's reply to Lkeas suggests that the spaces are irrelevant, or somewhat incorrect.
Hm. Well, I'm going to be out of commission for college stuff for about a week, so good luck.

Heh. Too bad I'll miss the quiz.
Have fun with the puzzle. I look forward to seeing how it was solved.



Lkeas -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/19/2009 17:09:52)

Ah hah, I think I figured out what the numbers are for. The number of letters in each word! So if we fix the spacing to match the number sequence, we get this:

GAKMZC YKZHECOLF BGFYKLA YKU SLKAO XLHF JKFR FKWZGACAOY

So uh... now what? Who here is good with substitution ciphers? Because I'm notoriously bad at them. [8D]



Krayola -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/19/2009 18:13:22)

I found a website that solves them for you, and something is wrong but from this part


GAKMZC YKZHECOLF BGFYKLA YKU SLKAO XLHF

I got this


ENIGMA SIMULATOR VERSION SIX POINT FOUR

The rest didn't work though...




Lord Asrius -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/19/2009 18:34:00)

What did the other two words translate to?



Karika -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/19/2009 18:40:24)

I got:

ENIGMA SIMULATOR VERSION SIX POINT FOUR DIRK RIJMENANTS

All hail the almighty Google. XP

Got it: http://users.telenet.be/d.rijmenants/en/enigmasim.htm

Dirk Rijamenants's Enigma Simulator version 6.4.3.



Coldkick -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/19/2009 20:00:56)

Cool so I had the correct one all along, but what do we put in it hmmmm.



goron link8 -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/19/2009 20:02:04)

so is that supposed to be the hint
for the one before it?



Lord Asrius -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/19/2009 20:24:05)

Yes.
Although it sill looks like there's plenty to change around in that simulator alone. I can't download it on this computer, running out of space, but I'll put it on my other one as soon as I finish my stuff here.



Lkeas -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/20/2009 1:02:18)

Ok, I think we're getting close. Trying to figure out how to use this simulator. I also think there's more to the original clue than we first thought...

quote:

Cross the wide sea, CLCVII, to find the good one's friend.

VONY MJJY JYCW ZZNO SSIJ ELZH


The first part, "cross the wide sea," I believe refers to which type of machine we're supposed to use. In the help page it mentions "wide C" reflectors for both the M3/Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe/Wehrmacht models. But what does the cross represent? I tried looking up the three German terms, and Wiki shows the logos for all 3 branches of the German army, but they ALL seem to have crosses incorporated into them! Although the Wehrmacht logo seems the most cross-like I suppose... The M4 model also has a C reflector, but that's a "thin C."

So the second part tells us which rotors we're supposed to use. I, V, and VII (157) specifically. Since the Luftwaffe/Werhmacht model has no rotor VII, we have to use the M3. However I have a question here now...

Do we have to adjust the Ringstellung before placing the rotors into place? If so, how do we know what position to put them in?

The third part I believe is probably our "key." The key for an M3 model would have been encoded using 2 sets of 3 trigrams. I think Eldron gave away what that was:

[15:22:15] <Eldron> BTW, have you seen my dang Oel?
[15:22:43] <Falerin> Keeshish
[15:22:51] <Eldron> Owl?
[15:22:57] <Falerin> I have not have you misplaced him

"To find" can be "see" and "the good one's friend" can be "owl." So our trigrams could be "SEE OWL"

If we follow the encryption instructions then we should set the start position to SEE, type in OWL, and get our key in the output, which is JNU. Then we should set the start position to JNU, and type in the cipher, and get our plaintext. But...

VONY MJJY JYCW ZZNO SSIJ ELZH
RBEO GTGO KHRL YXIB VLSC ZJXM

That doesn't look right [:@] Where did I go wrong?

Is there another step after this? [:-]



Dragonnightwolf -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/20/2009 1:18:58)

I'll be coming in momentarily to try and help you Lkeas.



Coldkick -> RE: =WF= A Final Mystery part II (7/20/2009 1:26:00)

Gah. I think your idea makes sense and it looks like it should work. If I wasn't so darn preoccupied I would be right on your tails helping. :(



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