RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th) (Full Version)

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Postmaster General -> RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th) (4/23/2012 3:28:38)

@plebster & Chuck the Awesome: Yergenism increases all enemies attack skills to 110% and increases your own to 140%. The power requires 61 energy and has a 15 second cooldown, its duration appears to be 20 seconds.




darklord841 -> RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th) (4/23/2012 4:52:39)

and the buff duration is 6 secs adding that in, also can the siphon of life miss? also dnt wrry zravi i am totally awera of the op builds currently even when i dont pvp often,




plebster -> RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th) (4/23/2012 16:55:37)

Nice thanks Duncan.

@darlord yes, siphon life can miss.

Also, does yergenism increase fashion sense's heal?




darklord841 -> RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th) (4/25/2012 4:04:52)

@pleb

Yes it does, increases every thing in ur set by 40 percent sept haste and damage debuff




blank452 -> RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th) (5/3/2012 14:11:29)

Finally got what I wanted out of Surge. I knew it was kinda off ever since switching to an Energy type build as my dmg was stupidly high when I used Surge and my opponent didn't, but was doing lower dmg when the opponent was using Surge as well as myself, compared to when neither of us used Surge.

My findings are presented below in a glorious display of numbers! XD

All tests used Pulsar Beam lvl10 and lvl15 25 times each. Yes, I'd prefer 100 but doing that without two lvl20 characters that have decent pvp scores would have been ludicrous (not the rapper).
The layout is such so it reads [opponent surge status] vs [my surge status] [skill lvl used] [calculation for overall average dmg per skill usage]
As each skill has a range for the dmg it can deal, the centre value of this range was taken to be the average dmg the skill can do


No Surge vs no surge lvl10 pulsar dmg (45 ; 54) => ~50.5
49, 45, 46, 45, 50, 49, 49, 48, 46, 50, 54, 48, 46, 52, 45, 45, 51, 45, 50, 47, 48, 51, 54, 46, 50
No Surge vs surge lvl10 pulsar dmg (81 ; 95) => ~88
90, 95, 95, 85, 86, 92, 95, 92, 92, 83, 90, 81, 81, 92, 90, 94, 86, 94, 81, 83, 86, 81, 86, 81, 88
No Surge vs no surge lvl15 pulsar dmg (53 ; 63) => ~58
62, 61, 58, 53, 53, 55, 53, 62, 57, 56, 57, 61, 54, 62, 62, 56, 54, 61, 57, 61, 62, 63, 55, 56, 58
No Surge vs surge lvl15 pulsar dmg (94 ; 113) => ~103.5
101, 101, 113, 97, 112, 103, 95, 110, 103, 97, 108, 113, 106, 104, 108, 94, 113, 95, 112, 99, 108, 101, 113, 97, 104
Surge vs no surge lvl10 pulsar dmg (14 ; 16) => ~15
15, 15, 15, 14, 14, 16, 16, 14, 14, 15, 16, 16, 16, 14, 14, 14, 16, 14, 15, 15, 16, 15, 15, 16, 14
Surge vs surge lvl10 pulsar dmg (26 ; 29) => ~27.5
28, 27, 29, 27, 28, 29, 26, 26, 29, 28, 28, 27, 26, 27, 27, 29, 26, 27, 28, 28, 29, 29, 27, 28, 26
Surge vs no surge lvl15 pulsar dmg (16 ; 19) => ~17.5
17, 16, 17, 18, 16, 17, 18, 17, 17, 17, 17, 19, 17, 18, 16, 17, 19, 17, 18, 18, 16, 19, 16, 16, 18
Surge vs Surge lvl15 pulsar dmg (29 ; 34) => ~31.5
32, 31, 34, 34, 30, 32, 34, 29, 29, 30, 34, 31, 32, 32, 29, 33, 31, 34, 33, 29, 30, 32, 29, 32, 31


Percentage of dmg increase
lvl10 pulsar
(88/50.5)*100 => ~74% dmg increase
(27.5/15)*100 => ~83% dmg increase
Average => ~78.5% dmg increase

lvl15 pulsar
(103.5/58)*100 => ~78% dmg increase
(31.5/17.5)*100 => 80% dmg increase
Average => ~79% dmg increase

The % dmg increase from Surge differs a tad more then I had thought. With around 10% difference from highest % to lowest % with lvl10 pulsar beam, the error margin of 5% is stretched to it's limits, but still holds. The average of the 2 comes out to be ~78.5%, so a significant increase in dmg output, and coupled with a powerful heal that can be buffed by the same %dmg increase, it certainly rates very highly.
The lvl15 pulsar beam, on the other hand, is much more contained, having only a 2% difference. The average comes out to be ~79%, so stays very much level with that of lvl10 pulsar beam, so overall working well so far.

Percentage of dmg resisted
lvl10 pulsar
(15/50.5)*100 => ~70% dmg resist
(27.5/88)*100 => ~69% dmg resist
Average => ~69.5 dmg resist

lvl15 pulsar
(17.5/58)*100 => ~70% dmg resist
(31.5/103.5)*100 => ~70% dmg resist
Average => ~70% dmg resist

The % dmg resisted from Surge is much more uniform across the board, with only 1% change when calculating from lvl10 pulsar beam. The average for lvl10 pulsar beam comes out as ~69.5%, and for lvl15 pulsar beam it shows as ~70%. Very nice.

However, this is what I knew I was seeing. As resist % can only go as far as 100% before zero dmg is being caused, the higher the % resist, the more extravagant the counteracting % dmg increase would have to be to normalise the overall dmg dealt.
For instance, 50% resist would require 100% dmg increase, as 50% resist equates to half of all dmg dealt, so to normalise this the dmg dealt would have to be double what it would normally be.

With the 70% resist that Surge gives, a dmg increase of ~233% would have to be achieved to counteract it. As this is impossible with the current set of skills, it makes those that use Energy builds much less viable as a play style.
Surge is a fairly easy skill to gain as it requires to lowest tier of PvP score, and with its fairly short cooldown, the fact the dmg increase buff effects the amount healed by Surge as well as the surge effect lasting almost as long as the cooldown itself (meaning any haste buff will allow the skill to be looped thus the surge effect will be effectively continuous), many players can and do use it, making Energy skills (and with them, entire builds) much less effective then other power type skills.

What I'd personally like to see is for the resist to be reduced to ~40-45% dmg resist. This would mean to normalise dmg, an increase of ~66-81% in dmg, which is more in line to what Surge gives. This would make Energy skills and builds more viable as an opponent with Surge wouldn't be as hard to kill as they are atm.




masamune27311 -> RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th) (6/10/2012 23:03:11)

fire lash's dehaste hasnt been fixed...




herosmashyumi -> RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th) (6/10/2012 23:17:34)

this is going back on darklords comment on mental not being a one shot build. if you have abra cadvra and 3 buffs you can deal 600-2000 damage (the 2000 ive heard of never done) so far my highest with abra mental build is 1697.




Antithesis -> RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th) (6/11/2012 6:33:42)

Just going to throw this out there:

Energy is very-much-so a viable playstyle. I regularly get Unstoppable when battling players who have the ability Surge, even when I'm using a largely energy based build.
For anyone who isn't aware: A foe's Surge is nullified if you decrease their haste significantly, and tends to get wrecked pretty hard by Chudling Rash in particular.



@Yumi:

Why would you ever need to hit a 1697 in PvP? That's an incredible waste of resources, lol.
Anything above 900 is excessive. I will vouch that having semi-powerful, short cooldown powers is infinitely more effective in PvP than wasting time using powers like Abra Cadavra and Death Touch, unless you have a build that sustains you long enough to allow you to use said powers.
That being said, I use a build designed to take out multiple enemies quickly because I've been forced to adapt to being piled every time I join a Battle Royale match, lol. This is opposed to getting a guaranteed kill on one target and being completely defenseless against others, which may or may not be your preferred play-style.

Outside of PvP, big hitters are even more of a waste of time and effort, unless you're using it to tackle a boss that has somewhere around (or below) 4000 HP.



~~

Just a quick, unrelated tip for you all:

Don't use builds designed to be awesome at Power Defense in Battle Royale. Just because you can't die doesn't mean you'll win. More often than not you will lose a Battle Royale match if you attempt to use a tanking build.
This is because you will not do enough damage to kill a player/effectively gain points.


That's it for today.
Cheers lads and lassies.




Plasma Charge -> RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th) (6/11/2012 6:54:09)

Just a friendly reminder please don't post in a topic which has been inactive for five days or more
as stated in the =HS= General Discussion forum rules.
Feel free to continue the discussion in the current PvP balance thread here!

Locked!
~Plasma Charge




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