RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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BlueKatz -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 18:13:40)
What I don't understand, why must you balance stats after classes? If the stat is not balanced (I proved that Rage make Tank builds too strong) then what the point of balance? Also note that moving Gun to DEX will mathematically balance with TEC. say def/res is 1:1 with ech have res bonus around 1.25+ (forgot the number anyways) and the bot is 0.25 and deflect is 0.25+. Now deflect is not decay plus the Res bonus work like Block non Decay it make Deflect + Bot + Res + Res Bonus = Def + Block + Gun Again, I fail to see how would people balance stat after Classes, it should be the opposite.

Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 18:50:22)
Looking at all the Multis, all the classes and their evolved counter parts have the same multi attacks. Looking at the attacks, 4 of them are Energy Based and 2 are Physical. I think it would be interesting for Blood Mages FireBall to become a Multi attack. So Rain would be replaced by Fire Rain, and what would be in the spot for Fire Ball, what about Assimilation? By doing this, Intimidation could become useful in 2v2 play. What are your thoughts?

rej -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 19:01:30)
quote: heres what the progression would look like. 40: 5-6 48: 6-8 56 7-9 64: 8-10 72: 9-11 80: 10-12 88: 11-14 96: 12-15 104: 13-16 112: 14-17 120: 15-18 128: 16-20 136: 17-21 144: 18-22 152: 19-23 160: 20-24 168: 21-26 176: 22-27 184: 23-28 192: 24-29 200: 25-30 208: 26-32 216: 27-33 224: 28-34 232: 29-35 240: 30-36 248: 31-38 now lets say a str BM has build with 123 str. and about 32 support with 123 str, his gun damage is 26-32 now with this support/str improvement to gun damage, his gun damage will be 19-23. now lets use this in support tech mage lets say 123 support. and about 32 str. with 32 str his gun damage will be 8-10 with the support increase his gun damage goes to 19-23 point of this is, lower gun damage to str builds, increase it to support builds. nothing too little, nothing too large Love it. Absolutely love it.

IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 19:21:30)
@JZaanu No. I think the multis are find the way they are. The 3 types we have now are fine. Also if it improved with strength then you can say hello new OPed STR BM build.

Rayman -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 19:28:36)
I like gold idea too.

Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 19:31:15)
Isaiah, how so. It is still the same skill. It will not be any different other then a higher tier on the Skill tree. Maybe moving Deadly Aim to the other bracket, so it is not stacked on one side. It also provides Mercenaries a possible supportive builds for BM multis. Both Field Commander and Intimidation would be extremely useful in 2v2 play.

IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 20:12:57)
@JZaanu STR BMs Fireball usually is in the 60s or 70s if you make that a multi even if you reduce the dmg by about 7 points. It won't matter. If they have over 100 STR it will take down about half of both their opponents HP in one shot. Excluding beast Tank CHs with 31-38 + 9 def. Don't forget if they do that for them its only fair to make 2 brand new multis for the others. I also believe BMs deserve some form of draining energy.

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 20:14:56)
I believe taking out Intimidate for Assimilation would be best solution. That is for now seeing how Intimidate is useless, but will be better once they change it so it's all up in the air.

IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 20:31:36)
@Trans Agreed.

Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 22:02:05)
If builds are prepared for high dmg fireball, then 60-70 dmg is rare. I can attest to this, by competing against 120+ support mercs. If your offensive, then expect to be hit with higher damage, and if your defensive, expect less. Since support has lost some of its' abilities, strength is now most robust and effective stat. But that saying, we have 4 energy based Multis. Two are powered by Tech, and two are powered by dexterity. We have 2 multis that are physical that are boosted with support, and zero multis with improvement with strength. I feel giving blood mages a physical multi will levels all the classes in regard to multi. Rain with the bloodmage class doesn't fit. If one views the other multis with other classes, it goes well, and it can be built around. Even if some adjustment needs to be made with BM skill tree, a physical multi will provide more balance.

ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 22:05:38)
@JZ Last I heard about the multi skills, BM was getting a new one and it would be improving with support. I don't believe it would be very balanced for BMs to have Fireball and a strength multi in the same build. Fireball is so strong because it can't be blocked or deflected. Classes shouldn't have so many unblockable strength moves because they can be abused quite easily.

Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 22:12:04)
ND, because I am a defensive orientated player, I don't find this an issue. With both, intimidate and field commander having very little impact in 2v2 play, it could provide use of strategy with those skills. Since you have mentioned to me they will get a new multi, hopefully it will be physical based. One must also note that this class does not have any energy gain/subtract. Beyond strength, it is a limited class. I am working on trying to find a defensive balance with BM with an alt. Due to lack of stats, strength is only effective build with the sacrifice is major defense for me now.

ND Mallet -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 22:43:58)
@JZ Both Massacre and Fireball are unblockable strength skills and both can cause huge problems for anyone with just the strength spam. I don't see a plausible way to have Fireball and a Str multi without one being nerfed severely to make up for the other. They could try but it would just cause problems, especially since BM has Bloodlust and a Fireball plus Multi would be gaining back a lot of health while dealing a ton of damage. It's not entirely impossible to two shot with a BM now assuming your Berzerker hits. Adding another unblockable strength move will make it much easier for a BM to two turn players.

Elf Priest JZaanu -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/14/2012 23:03:07)
My apologies ND, my suggestion was not to add a strength multi on top of Fireball, but to transform Fireball into a Multi. The Fireball Multi would be placed on 4th tier on the skill tree, so it would require more points to reach there to max it if they choose. It would be like the merc multi which is on the last tier. To replace the first tier skill which is open now, my suggestion was assimilation. The problem of having Fireball and Plasma cannon is, like you mentioned, two un-blockables. Within three skills, there is not enough separation, so stacking is easy and it is done quite often with simple combo builds for quick damage.

drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 4:46:31)
Another idea, how about this: Since I saw goldslayer1's post bout Support being bullets, I thought this up: Gun Damage: Increases with STR. Gun Cooldown: Decreases with Support. Here's the fun part: Gun Cooldown starts at 4 turns. (I can see you roll your eyes, dear reader.) At 32 BASE Support, it is reduced to 3 turns. At 42 BASE* Support, it is reduced to 2 turns. *This is important so that people can't rely on the extra weapon stats to cover it up.

goldslayer1 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 7:34:38)
quote: Another idea, how about this: Since I saw goldslayer1's post bout Support being bullets, I thought this up: Gun Damage: Increases with STR. Gun Cooldown: Decreases with Support. Here's the fun part: Gun Cooldown starts at 4 turns. (I can see you roll your eyes, dear reader.) At 32 BASE Support, it is reduced to 3 turns. At 42 BASE* Support, it is reduced to 2 turns. *This is important so that people can't rely on the extra weapon stats to cover it up. sounds interesting but this only brings more and more into focus builds.

Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 7:50:11)
^ I agree, Balancing shouldnt be focused on restricting. It should be focused on increase variety and counters for effectiveness therefore the gold's support and str Gun idea I like. But if STR builds were restricted to go 5 focus then they will, and 5 focus STR spammers will be jsut as bad as the ones now therefore nothing will change. Its just like requirments, they never really fix the problem...ever they just delay it.

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 7:54:43)
I don't know if goldslayer will like the idea, which I posted few pages back, about Guns and Dex again.. What if Gun was to improve 80% with Str (makes sense as you need power) and 20% with Dex for "accuracy" (not actual accuracy but makes sense again). While it wouldn't strengthen the Tanks that much, Str build would have weaker Gun which is always better as we receive less damage from them and have chance to counter them; especially when going second. I won't provide exact numbers but how it could be done would be Str decaying since the beggining, it's +4 stats for +1 damage so if 80% was to be powering Gun (this is ONLY for Guns) then it'd be +5 Str and if it's +5 Str at higher range, it'd be +6. Dex would probably give damage much slower as it's just 20%, so probably around +8 points for +1 damage. It doesn't focus on Tanks mainly, Focus 5 builds would have pretty much same damage as before and Str build would be a bit (at least..) weaker.

Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 7:59:04)
^ I dont think much will change. Most Str spammers often have just as high dex well at least the wise ones do. I supose it would slightly weaken the BM build since they dont have high anything excpet for STR. But I still think guns should be a mix of stats so that part I agree on. If you wanted to go really complicated you could make it improve 1/3 STR 1/3 dex and 1/3 support xD but it porberlly would be too complicated :P

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 8:12:45)
Yeah mix of stats, that's what I meant. Str for Primary and Support for Aux is fine, while Gun should be somewhere mid-way. To give advantage for every build, Str + Dex + Support should all be used and I think 1/3 would be the best. Str builds go for Str and Dex at times so 2 stats (spreading into 3 will weaken Str significantly) -- Tanks go for higher Dex and moderate Str + Support which would give them about same average as Str build -- Support build goes for Support and Dex (and Tech) and some Str so it's like opposite of Str build.

rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 8:20:22)
I just wish people would play the game trying to have fun and not trying to be the best... That is all, my young players! :)

Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 10:17:54)
^ Balance?

Andromedan15 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 10:27:06)
Okay, upon playing as all classes in the past month or two and playing with every possible build i can think of with those classes I can come to the conclusion that these classes are more unbalanced then they ever were. All these previous nerfs/buffs were made because of people complaining about the tactical mercenary class being over powered. Now here's the part I've been wanting to say for a while whoever is in charge of balancing these classes are clearly doing a very poor job and not considering all six classes and builds of those classes before they make a change. Please reefer to the suggestion threads and look in the skill/class suggestions and see some of the great idea's I have came up with to AT LEAST keep players of all classes to be satisfied with their win to loss ratio and fairness of the game. Also I know that the Epic Duel staff are mods are a very busy crew and I have a solution to that as well in the suggestion Threads. No hard feeling but like when Obama got elected the theme was "Its Time For Change" and might I add "The Right Way" . Have a nice day.

Colarndo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 10:30:31)
There are only 2 people in the balance team so you get what you pay for.

rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 10:50:58)
Wait wait wait. I've noticed something. The Double Strike for Tact Mercs. EXTREMELY OP's them because of the Strength, right? But I've noticed another thing...it only takes 1 turn to cool down! Double Strike- warm up 0, cool down 1 Cheap Shot (hunters)- warm up 0, cool down 2 Fireball/Plasma Bolt (mages)- warm up 0, cool down 2 Are you serious? The double strike does 23% more damage at lvl 1, and when added with a strength abuser it is very deadly! BUT also making it a 1 turn cool down! What? Are? You? Thinking? Make it a darned cool down 2! A strength abuser could rage and double strike (about 40 damage) then gun (crit at about 30, regular 20 depends) and then double strike AGAIN and might crit on THAT. The mages bolt/fireball is in 2 turn cool down cause its OP. Ok...what is the Double Strike then, a Christmas Cookie? And the cheap shot? Thats just a joke really. At most, it does 20 damage at lvl 1, and thats if it doesnt block, which is usual. Then we wait two turns to hope for a 26 damage crit? Thats if it isnt blocked AGAIN. Ive only blocked the double about 3 times a day, which is nothing since its a 1 turn cool down and they can just use it again, with a crit happenin lol. People say cheap shot is the deadliest. How is that? The hunters NEVER use it, and it gets blocked a lot. And it goes up by a miniscal amount per level. At it's highest, it's only 34% def/res ignored. Double Strike? 50% MORE damage. with a person with 85-100 strength, we are toast when they rage. And then we are happy when we manage to live past the massive rage, we heal, and then a turn later they double AGAIN and manage to more than likely crit, Sorry for trolling, but Ive just noticed this xD

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