RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

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IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 11:21:21)
@rayniedays56 First off DS is not OPed at all. At max it only does 50% more weapon dmg meaning if your primary has +34 dmg then it will only do 17 more dmg. Also you're not taking into account the amount of energy it cost. It cost 33 energy at max. Therefore once you use it you depending on how much dmg you take it could take 1-2 turns to gain enough energy to use it again. Also don't forget STR abusers always lack in other areas. Having them crit a whole lot is very very rare and most of the time they will be deflected because of low tech. Don't also forget if they smoke a simple def matrix or an assualt bot can fix that easily. DS is just fine the way it is. It combined with Maul would be deadly but since maul is gone its fine. Also how is Cheap Shot a joke? At max lvl it ignores 34% of def and a 25% crit chance and only cost 19 energy that combined with a STR BH with smoke is deadly. Also what do you mean it is usually blocked? No it isn't because STR BHs usually have high dex. And with smoke increases their chances or blocking even more and decreases yours. And don't forget if have SA.

Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 14:02:45)
This would be better for Blood Mages a multi that does Plasma rain/Fire storm and to get the benefits of damage the Blood mage has to have a balance between strength and tech. That way all the ones complaining about high strength Blood Mages could stop complaining and would give the Blood Mage an evolved class a new evolved skill.

rayniedays56 -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 19:12:50)
I have ONE question Isaiagh. What class are you?

Ranloth -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 19:22:45)
Seriously, saying BH might be strong now (CS) is getting quite low.. Surely CHs have it as well but BH is balanced since Beta times if not earlier and if you change it for CH - it affects BH as well. If CS can do as much, surely it means problem will be with DS costing too much Energy. DS at Lvl 9 does as much damage as Lvl 1 Berzerker at cost of 31 EP as opposed to 27 EP. Surely that seems wrong as you gotta invest 8 points into DS to get same damage as Berzerker at Lvl 1 (which takes 2 points to get to it (including training it)). Solution would be to bring DS' Energy cost down by a little and add 25% Crit chance and for CS - we could raise EP cost to match CS if not a bit above it a little due to ignoring defence. There's no other solution without changing both skills greatly and making Mercs and BHs worse..

IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 19:40:15)
@rayaniedays56 I am a Tac Merc. Previously a Merc and now a Tac Merc.

Stabilis -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 20:15:06)
quote: Strength: Increases base damage range of Primary, Sidearm, and enhances certain skills. Dexterity: Increases physical defense, increases the chance to block, and enhances certain skills. Technology: Increases energy resistance, deflect, robot damage and enhances certain skills. Support: Increases base damage range of Auxiliaries, increases chance to go first, critical strike, and rage rate; reduces chance to be stunned and enhances certain skills. My suggestion for stat attributes: Strength: Increases base damage range of Primary, rage rate, and enhances certain skills. - Dexterity: Increases the chance to block and the accuracy of Primary (only 50% effective), chance to dodge (ranged weapons can completely miss) (50%), increases base damage range of Sidearm (50%), enhances NO skills. - Technology: Increases robot damage, increases base damage range of Sidearm (50%), increases base damage range of Auxiliaries (50%) and enhances certain skills. - Support: Increases base damage range of Auxiliaries (50%), increases the effectiveness of buffer skills (defense matrix, reflex boost, energy shield, technician, etc.), enhances field medic, and enhances certain skills (certain in this context meaning very few offensive skills). - Defense: Increases physical defense. - Resistance: Increases energy resistance. - Luck/Chance: Increases chance to go first, critical strike, chance to connect for Primary-Sidearm-and-Auxiliaries, reduces chance to be stunned, and enhances certain {new} skills. Strength: Applies well with the the Strike skill which is infinite, and can crush through tanks with the ability to amplify rage. Dexterity: No longer counts for defense, which protects from half of all attacks, comparative to AQ (if you didn't know is extremely balanced for stats... each stat is powerful by itself but needs many points to truly be effective), part 1 of 2 for improving ranged weapons to avoid OP stat abuse, and also avoid incoming damage from weapons, but, as stated above, only 50% effective (normal = 1 upgrade per 4 stat points-----50% = 1 upgrade per 8 stat points). Technology: This becomes mostly an offensive stat, improving all weapons except for Primaries. Robots improve by this stat 100% like it does right now, but Sidearms and Auxiliaries only improve by 50%. Does not affect weapon accuracy. Support: Support becomes a supporting stat! It will rather aid combat situation tactics rather than something destructive. Improves Auxiliaries by 50%, also enhancing skills that boost the player. Support will be severely crippled so field medic can be improved by support again. Defense: Improves physical defence only. Resistance: Improves energy resistance only. Luck/Chance: Needed to be separated from basic combat stats. Support is currently half skill and half not. Support is one or the other, disorder causes confusion. EDIT (this section is new): Strength affects: Massacre, bludgeon, double strike, intimidate, berzerker, maul, frenzy. Dexterity affects: No skills. Technology affects: Smokescreen (50%), EMP grenade (50%), multi-shot (50%), stun grenade (50%), malfunction (50%), bunker buster (50%), surgical strike (50%). Support affects: Field medic, energy shield, reflex boost, defense matrix, technician, field commander, artillery, reinforcements [increases your support or your ally's support during combat], oppose [strike and weaken an enemy by reducing their support in combat], surgical strike (50%). Luck/Chance affects: Any skill using random variables (such as cheap shot or maul) (50%). EDIT About Focus (this section is newer): Focus improves when 7 stats are balanced. Therefore, to make focus possible, 7 stat points are given per each level up. Agility is removed. Example: Level 1 Focus = 25 Strength, 25 Dexterity, 25 Technology, 25 Support, 25 Defense, 25 Resistance, 25 Luck/Chance... and so on. EDIT About Stat Progression and Decay (this is the newest section): Stat Progression - Wiki New stat progression: Everyone knows just how vast stat points are right now. On my character alone, the total of my stat points is: 26 (armour) + 27 (sidearm) + 26 (auxiliary) + 36 (primary) + 132 (levels) = 247 stat points. That can be a maxed out stat, or two stats at 120 points each. WOW. All stats except for energy and health stop progressing at 165 stat points. The current issue in today's game-play is different power levels between players. Because some skills actually improve with these stats, you have a reason to worry about damage and protecting your health from such attacks. I am proposing an idea: change the way stat progressions work so that numerous stat points do not sum up quickly to handicap a player's damage output or damage input. The way decay works, is that culminating stat points (the more stats you add), become less effective the larger the number. This can divert higher level players to focus just because they want the most out of their stats. This is not productive. New Stat Progression [img]http://i44.tinypic.com/xmo7cp.png[/img] If you can see the pattern, all stats after the 20th row gain a boost. This is level scaling. For every 20 levels worth in stat points (approx. 140 stat points), the range or effectiveness of stats increases by a small amount. To explain the Sidearm and Auxiliary progression in a few statements, DEX, TEC, and SUP apply 50% of the normal range that something like STR has per every 7 stat points. For Sidearms, the damage range of DEX and TEC combine to make one totalled range. Same goes for Auxiliaries, who's damage range is a combo of TEC and SUP. This way, you can NOT abuse one stat to make a weapon OP (Primaries are an exception to this rule). What would you suggest for health and energy (HP/MP) in accordance to stat progressions? 1 stat point for every 1 health point, or 1 stat point for every 2 health points, or 3 or 4 or more? EDIT About Primary damage (newer than newest): Strike is the one skill of all skills that has absolute zero cooldown. Also, since blocking is purely a system of random number drawing, Strike is a reliable form of constant damage output. I have a proposal for penalizing Striking. Exhaustion: For every successive Strike, the damage of Strike is temporarily reduced. Strike damage is restored once a turn has been spent doing anything other than Striking. The maximum damage reduction is 33%, at 11% damage reduction for every successive Strike (3 Strikes in a row will reduce Strike damage by 33% until Strike is not used). As already mentioned, agility will be removed. Expect higher values for damage and healing... total health, energy, and stats will increase.

Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 20:19:57)
How balanced is this I have my energy at 66 a Cyber Hunter launch a Level 1 EMP taking away 37 points making not only fireball at max useless and Plasma Cannon at max useless leaving only one of the most blockable skills. Not only the Cyber Hunter could put malfunction on me but with static charge basically restore all their energy. Two new class can restore energy while the third can't, how is that balanced? The new classes is suppose to matched with one another so don't bring up how the old classes can't do this or that crap because last time I checked the Blood Mage is one of the new evolved class. So for the Blood Mage to use any skills at max we are forced to lower the stats to a point where we don't have and defense or resistance and for all of you that can't beat a strength Blood Mage you seriously need to check your battle strategy and stop trying to nerf a class that already have been nerfed enough.

Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 20:59:01)
@Above: impossible. I was a huge tank with a minimum of 40 def/Res, and i had a 32 EMP.

IsaiahtheMage -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 22:06:47)
@Depressed Void Might as well rebuild the entire game and all weapons then. That would also encourage 5 focus builds even more making the game boring when everyone is using the same build. Also if that happened people would rage quit so everyone should gain a free retrain and extra credits so they can get a new weapon to adjust to the newly changed stats and their new build.

Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 22:07:33)
It doesnt matter anyway, If you buff Blood mages in this situtation there STR build will become more oped then it already is. The point is Blood mages have extremely powerful attacks, and although an EMP can take away the bulk of them, you have to consider that the person EMPIng loses a attack turn, and when you fight STR blood mages you need to use as much attacks as possible if you want to hope for beating them before they kil you. Unfortunately the NON STR spamming Blood mages loses out here because the STR builds is what is stopping this class being buffed in many cases. So if you want to come up with an ida to help blood mages, Think of one which does NOT benefit the STR build at all and I will gladly support. Remorse Less.

Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 22:12:36)
Wraith, A level 10 EMP can take away 47 plus energy depending how high your tech is. So it is unfair a NEW class that has no energy regain, 15% from reflex boost don't count because it uses energy, and basically every skill to use a large amount of energy at max to either get to be used once or none at all if all energy is drained. The Blood Mage has to either have high strength and energy or high tech and energy to have the energy to get decent damage thus either the Blood mage has weak defense and resistance or weak strength and defense making them easy kills even by lower level players. For the classes that have debuff skills with damage that don't use but complain how they have a tough time defeating someone then that debuff skill should be taken away, "if you don't use it you should lose it." There are too many balanced issues between the new classes for all the new classes be equally competitive in all battle modes and the staff knows these things.

Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/15/2012 22:44:04)
@Hun: Yeah...and then they'd have to neglect other stats. Try fnding a Tank CH's Level 1 EMP. Screenshot it. Then I'll stop treating you like you don't know about CH.

Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 0:01:34)
Wraith, YOU KNOW WHY I KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT EMP IT IS BECAUSE I GET HIT WITH THEM EITHER EVERY MATCH OR EVERY OTHER MATCH, AND ASK OTHERS THAT BEEN BOUNTIES OR CYBERS THEY WILL VERIFY THAT EMP TAKES LARGE AMOUNTS OF ENERGY!! THERE ARE TANK CYBER HUNTERS WITH LEVEL 1 EMP JUST AS BACK UP I JUST CAME OUT OF A COUPLE 2VS2 AGAINST THEM.

Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 0:12:18)
You claimed a level one EMP takes 47 Energy...I personally used level one with a crapton of Tech and got 32. Sure EMP is powerful. But 32=/=37=/=47. And in either case, if i don't EMP I get three shotted, and life isn't that easy to the point that that you can three shot everything. Btw, umadbro? You seem so. Remember the time you couldn't plasma rain because you thought plasma raining in 2vs2 needed 32 energy instead of 44? And posted it as a bug? You may have made a mistake again :)

Colarndo -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 0:15:20)
It's a bit unrealistic to have level 1 EMP that can take away 47 MP due to the fact that CH has a passive E armor; which would mean that CH has a lot of energy resist but probably has a hole in his def/str due to pumping in so much tech. In which you would have clobbered him with a physical type of weapon. If you have no backup plans after getting your energy drained than accept the fact that your build has loopholes in it.

Wraith -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 0:19:03)
misread, sorry. Yous aid level 10 EMP. Still unrealostic to have a 37 lvl 1 EMP. That requires upward of 90 Tech...

drinde -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 4:49:25)
Alright: Project Disarm Sidearm Suggestion II: Gun Damage: STR Gun Cooldown: Agility for Stats? 00-57 STR: 2 Turns 58-93 STR: 3 Turns 94+ STR: 4 Turns

Hun Kingq -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 5:30:10)
Wraith, Where in this quote is talks about 47 energy drain, "A level 10 EMP can take away 47 plus energy depending how high your tech is.," did you find it, you did, good does it say level 1 or level 10. In my past statements I wrote Level 1 taking away 37 points of energy, Some tank Cyber Hunters have not only high defense but high tech, for the bot "Cheap Shot: Strike enemy ignoring a % of all defenses; 25% chance for critical strike." I seen some with 88 tech others with 93. You can bring up that time all you want there was a reason and I told the staff about it but will not tell players. Plus when you click on a skill and it does not have enough energy the bar pops up at the top telling you that you don't have enough energy but in my case it told me it was in cool down and also when you don't have enough energy to use a skill that phrase requires 44 energy is suppose to be highlighted in red, it never was, just to clear that up so you could give that a rest and move on from the past. Colarndo, a strength Blood mage has low defense and resistance and since the Blood Mage dex would be lower than a Cyber Hunter with there shadow arts giving then that extra blocking chance, a strength Blood Mage will be blocked 90 to 100% of the time and the bot will be blocked as well, one match out of 4 strikes I got blocked 4 times on top of that the bot was blocked as well. Cyber Hunters are coming here and trying to get the Blood Mage nerfed even further so they can be even more powerless and be more easier to beat so they can have easy wins, that is not helping balance things out and if they want easy wins go play PAC-man.

TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 6:28:26)
Class balance there is some changes i think should be done to have better balance BH Edit: Increase bloodlust to 30% Add Shadow arts % defense ignore, 10% def/res ignore at Max CH Edit: Remove Shadow arts Merc Edit: If you really dont want to make passive Field Commander than add a new passive "Focus Attack", this will be like deadly aim but divided in to both primary dmg and gun dmg and not high like deadly aim. Like +5 primary dmg and +5 gun dmg. BM Edit: Increase Bloodlust to 30% Add 1 turn warm up to Fireball and Add 1 more turn to its cooldown TM and TLM is fine

DeathGuard -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 7:06:58)
quote: if they want easy wins go play PAC-man. Agreed quote: BH Edit: Increase bloodlust to 30% Add Shadow arts % defense ignore, 10% def/res ignore at Max Increase to bloodlust? I don't agree it is fine the way it is. What about Shadow Arts? Do you want to make worst the situation of balance? You're quite insane my friend. quote: BM Edit: Increase Bloodlust to 30% Add 1 turn warm up to Fireball and Add 1 more turn to its cooldown Bloodlust nope. Yes, lets add it, then we make static charge, cheap shot, plasma bolt, bunker buster, stun grenade, overload, plasma grenade one turn warmup and cooldown too. Get serious quote: TM and TLM is fine Nope TLM Edit: Frenzy's energy cost should be higher, % regain by the hit requires low energy, and the % of hp regained is high, so the skill should be nerfed by adding more energy cost. TM: Needs buff on SC, a new revamped skill tree, buff in other skills like overload, adjustments on skills like assimilation, energy regain and energy taken from it are really low, it should be higher.

Remorse -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 13:22:53)
@ Turk I would have to agree with almost all of those because in each case they BUFF one particualr type of build and thats STR spamming, STR apmming build whether it be the weakest class does NOT need to be buffed all it will do is lead to endless balance issues. My Ideas to adjust yours: Mercs: Passive Auxiallry damage increase- Increased attack on primary and gun is no offence a terriable idea, these build are bad enough even if mercs are considered weak balance will be highly likely to be worsened. BH: Change shadow arts: Reduces all incoming damage and increases chance to connect by 1% per level. -Incrasing armour ignoring will lead to unbalanced STR abusers. Increase Reflex to 25% reroute Blood mage: 1 turn warm up to firball and one turn cool down -Good idea. Increase reflex to 25% reroute Mages: Technician bonus: Reduces amount of rage opponet is given by 25% for the time technician is active. CH: Remove Shadow arts and give them a new less useful skill.

TurkishIncubus -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 14:44:04)
quote: Mercs: Passive Auxiallry damage increase- Increased attack on primary and gun is no offence a terriable idea, these build are bad enough even if mercs are considered weak balance will be highly likely to be worsened. +5-6 dmg in 3 turns will not buff that class. And will lead them to do only Support related builds. quote: BH: Change shadow arts: Reduces all incoming damage and increases chance to connect by 1% per level. -Incrasing armour ignoring will lead to unbalanced STR abusers. Increase Reflex to 25% reroute Bloodlust 100% need a buff, reroute is way too powerfull than that. Also reroute has both offense and defense options but bloodlust is only a defensive passive. To use Bloodlust effective BH and BM is forced to use str builds. Reduce incoming dmg for shadow is fine, just give that passive a non luck related bonus. And TM is definetly doesnt require any buff, thats maybe the only balanced class.

XxKirachanXx -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 15:06:41)
^^ Yep...I find as a bounty hunter that if you can't crank out some serious damage and fast your fighting a lost battle ;w; And I had lv 10 shadow arts for months, during the war against the hulk yeti, I had, sadly a pretty wimpy 67 dex, but at the same time, with lv 8 smoke that took off about 39 dex and lv 10 SA, you would think I would block more than just once or twice every five matches ;w; And yet, when I finally gave up and decided to go to 1v1 and hope for a fight that wasn't stacked against me. Well...needless to say against poor odds I blocked about 3-4 times in a row...and consequently reported for hacking... sigh I really hope that something I poured 10 skill points in would have somewhat consistent results ;w;

Emptiness -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 19:39:06)
Just played a 2vs2 saying to myself, give this game another so i entered a 2vs2 battle. So this is the scenario me a lvl 34 ch and a lvl 28 tmvs 2 34 varium players (a ch and tlm) with the most up to date gear one was using a 5 focus build and the other a tank str sort of build. Anyways my partner went first and I say to myself this seems like a fun match since he had a lvl 8 plasma bolt, malf and supercharge maxed out we stood a decent chance, boy was i wrong both our first attacks were blocked, i had more dex then my opponent so it was peculiar the first turn advantage we had then switched over to them. Next the lvl 34 ch crit 34 on my partner who had like 70 health or so, next turn he healed then 34 damage, final blow was 41 which led to his death, while malfed his plasma did 4, this leaves me against 2 varium 34s with full health. Now how am i exactly suppose to handle this situation, I thought battles were suppose to be fair and not deal a large blow to my record which I'm proud to hold. This has gone on long enough and this problem needs to be addressed as soon as possible, I really don't understand how this problem takes 2 years and up to handle. Just now I've thought of this what about not having any loses on players records just wins then no one would worry about losing and get frustrated with the game ultimately quitting, which means no money for the company. Or if you don't like that how about giving the team with the lvl 28 the 1st and 2nd turn, or in other words a 2 turn advantage over the enemy, of course this would only apply to battles with 34s, 33s, and 32s. I've just brainstormed these ideas now, so I think that it doesn't take 2 years and up to think of a solution, there are approximately 63072000 seconds in a year, which is long enough to come up with one idea to solve this problem. Enough is enough, I'm getting tired of these excuses, hopefully they can be resolved as soon as possible.

AQWPlayer -> RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread (2/16/2012 20:12:32)
@Hun Kingq I used my CH alt to try it, and it took 120 tech to get a -37 EMP at lvl 1 :3 At that amount of tech, you'd have 35-42 base resistance, which means very little points left for other stats... Adding from my experience, BMs HIT 90% of the chance and 2-3 turn me (3 turns or a bit more if I decide to waste time :P) so basically they win most of the matches. My dex TM stands no chance against these OP str builds .-.

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