RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (Full Version)

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DarkLore -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:11:41)

Ash. Dark Crystals still drop from moonridge quest! GRR!



Greldracion -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:12:27)

Great job yet again Ash! the class feels great, the damage is that of paladin in terms of burst power, while there are still large amounts of defensive capability. The ability to switch between an hot and a dot really make this a balance between sustainability and crowd control. The three dots and the life steals that I see are very well balanced and adds more to the theme of a necro/paladin hybrid, with a good heal on strike and a life steal. The mana costs are great to keep the class as a burst/boss class, without having to sacrifice damage for lesser longevity, but again its a hybrid. Overall, a really great mix between two very good armors, well done.



Romulus -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:14:31)

Woah, just realized the Curse ability isn't there anymore lol.

I was so accustomed to using it that I almost panicked.



Ash -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:14:32)

quote:

Ash. Dark Crystals still drop from moonridge quest! GRR!

I never said they don't drop. I said they have a much LESS chance to drop. they only make up 10% of the drop pool now so you have a 90% chance to get an undead slayer badge.



Romulus -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:17:28)

Maybe it's just me...

but whenever I use the defensive skill, it only kicks in the turn after I use it. If I use it and the monster's turn follows after I still get hit with all attacks.



The ErosionSeeker -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:18:33)

Is the minion skill supposed to do anything?
It feels like a normal attack with no effects at all.

Liking the new power of DK, currently thinking that "your presence grows" is a bit disconnected with the round 1 description of necrotic presence ripping into the foe.



BludClaw -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:19:08)

quote:

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevvvvvvvvvvvvvvviiiiiiiiiiiiiillll?

I can't handle the evil.

quote:

@Blud Claw the items don't seem to follow on from each other but you go straight from 40 > 70 for example, that's how it worked with the belt anyway.

. . . .

*checks again*

Well I'll be damned.

Never mind, significantly less evil.



Ash -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:23:18)

quote:

but whenever I use the defensive skill, it only kicks in the turn after I use it. If I use it and the monster's turn follows after I still get hit with all attacks.

There might be something weird going on. I've been coding for going on 13 hours now so I'm going to look at it tomorrow. I don't want to screw it up.

quote:

Is the minion skill supposed to do anything?
It feels like a normal attack with no effects at all.

It's basically Necro's Summon Familiar attack. A quick attack that deals more damage.

quote:

Liking the new power of DK, currently thinking that "your presence grows" is a bit disconnected with the round 1 description of necrotic presence ripping into the foe.

Disconnected in what way?

BludClaw - Yes. You don't have to buy each previous item to get the next. You can go straight from the level 40 version to any version above it. I priced out the amount of items needed to compensate for that. I.E. the level 80 ones take 4 of the resource since you'd have needed 4 previous ones to get it. It's a small shortcut while doing the same thing as "use the previous to upgrade the next."



Drop_Bear -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:31:04)

@Ash Not complaining but you said that "same thing as "use the previous to upgrade the next." " which is correct for the first set you get but ends up being more farming for those of lower levels. For example as a level 70 i need 18 umbral essence however when i reach level 80 I'll need another 24 not the 4 that i would have needed in the "use the previous to upgrade the next." scenario.
Is this intentional?



Alpha Centipede -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:31:43)

The revamped DeathKnight is quite strong, I must say. Now we can switch between Paladin's passive and Necromancer's passive. Also, I feel that it's a good change that the base class-dependent skills are gone. My only complaint is that it's missing a mana regen, but I guess it more than makes up for that with it's HoT and the damage output.

In a nutshell, the class revamp is a mana-eater, but can hold it's own against strong enemies. An excellent revamp overall.



Romulus -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:31:52)

Where would one acquire Dusk Essence?



Ash -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:33:03)

quote:

Not complaining but you said that "same thing as "use the previous to upgrade the next." " which is correct for the first set you get but ends up being more farming for those of lower levels.


level 40 -> 1 dusk -> 50 -> 1 dusk-> 60 -> 1 dusk-> 70 -> 1 dusk -> 80
Level 40 -> 4 dusks -> 80

It does work out to be the same as you'd still need to farm the 2 essences per item and use the 1 item to get to the next. :P Yes you end up farming more in the long run but 10 levels is a HUGE gap and this is meant to allow people to earn the item up front instead of over time.

Romulus - The resource button when you select items. You can craft it there.



The Jop -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:37:30)

Too bad I have no Dragon Amulet. Even when it comes out properly I won't be able to use half the skills.



Romulus -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:37:53)

Dusk Essence + UDE for DA upgrades?

I can do that tomorrow. Thank you so much for the great class testing process and items Ash. I also saw you added the items for the Paladin class, but did not implement the new class version as yet.

I realized that a few minutes ago, just took me a bit to get over there. The new Pally *should* have replaced the old one now. ~Ash



DarkLore -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:40:30)

will the DK upgraded items resemble the DC ones? The descriptions heavily imply it.



Drop_Bear -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:41:16)

For a level 80 yes it ends up being the same but in the first scenario it takes 3 essence to reach level 70 then sit for awhile then 1 more for 80. In the current scenario I upgrade to level 70 for 3 essence, so far this is the same. However, when i reach level 80 i have to throw away my level 70 using up 3 essence and then upgrade to a level 80 for 4 essence making my used essence per item 7 where it would have been 4. This is fair as your using another item but it ends up costing more to go through the levels in the current scenario and i was just curious if this is intended.



Romulus -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:42:33)

@Ash

I got an error message when trying to equip it. Take some rest and do it tomorrow, you've done enough tonight [:-]



Azan -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:45:30)

First... DK is really, really, really awesome. I'm in love with the skills. Just... wow. I won't start commenting them, they all are awesome. I especially like how the locked-element for the multi changed to Evil.

Second, your testing humor is also very awesome. -500 to Fun sounds exactly like a true DeathKnight. (just like -500 to Untied Shoes for a true Paladin.)

Also? EVIL! (Sofist-worthy!)



Ash -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:48:40)

quote:

will the DK upgraded items resemble the DC ones? The descriptions heavily imply it.

The DA items do. The NDA's are the same as the base items.

quote:

This is fair as your using another item but it ends up costing more to go through the levels in the current scenario and i was just curious if this is intended.

Eh, kind of? Basically I was trying something new in terms of how crafted items are handled. I can always go back later and change it...even though merge items are a mess...if it's just entirely horrible but for the most part it's fast enough to get everything you need with Pally and the items might not appeal to everyone. Even one of the items puts Empower at a decent damage range so there's that.

Romulus - It's fixed, I made a typo which I just corrected.



BludClaw -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 22:51:15)

Those new Paladin items are beautiful.

I hope we can get the new Paladin art soon to go along with it.



Mordred -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 23:09:05)

There's a weird bug in multi-battles. If you change the passive while targeting an enemy not affected by the DoT, it wastes your turn without changing the passive. Also, why does changing the passive cost a turn? It's really not worth the loss of damage, especially since it doesn't carry over battles.



Drop_Bear -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 23:16:13)

The Death Knight class retains its beautiful damage capabilities and thematically it seems much closer to Paladin and Necromancer now, especially with the passive toggle.

It's play style seems very different to paladin and necromancer though which are a good mix of damage, defence and sustain while Death Knight's a mana hungry damage nuking with solid defence.

For this reason I'll probably use the two former classes more than it. Even so it fits the "Knight" part of its description with both strong offence and defence and it's skills certainly have that "certain death" feel to it. Overall a job very well done.



cenarius345 -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 23:26:52)

Just a small issue, but still an important one in my opinion - The long descriptions on the new items are almost always shoving the "Required Items" section off of the description page. It'd be really, really nice if that information was listed somewhere else in-game so that when you're looking at the sets and what's required you don't have to come sift through a forum thread or go to the wiki. (Has the wiki even been updated with the new items yet?) I know the information is available, but still.



Alpha Centipede -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 23:29:23)

@cenarius345: Going into full-screen mode helps. At least, it helps for me.



Ash -> RE: =DF= DeathKnight Discussion Thread (9/26/2014 23:33:42)

quote:

There's a weird bug in multi-battles. If you change the passive while targeting an enemy not affected by the DoT, it wastes your turn without changing the passive. Also, why does changing the passive cost a turn? It's really not worth the loss of damage, especially since it doesn't carry over battles.


The coding has to track the DoT's charges to be able to apply the heal at the same amount of charges otherwise you'll end up getting a HoT at 1 charge. If you're not targeting the enemy with the DoT effect it loses track and defaults to no change (i.e. resetting the passive to DoT). This is not fixable as it's based in how the battle engine tracks things. It can't focus on multiple targets for tracking purposes, only the one you're currently targeting. The rest of the effects "track" in the background but aren't able to be read unless you're actually targeting that specific enemy. Since the DoT has to be applied to a singular target if you hop off of it the game loses track and it resets. I had to bend enough of the engine in different ways in order to make this work at all.

As for it taking a turn, that's allowing the checks that have to be made during the switch to actually check. It requires the game to take a turn to process it. I pushed and prodded to get this thing to work and quite honestly it's pretty much sitting at that precarious point of "I don't like working but I will because duct tape".



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