=DF= Version 14.0.1 (Full Version)

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Ash -> =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 18:38:18)

Version 14.0.1


Today we're rolling live a new version of the game filled with a bunch of changes to stats, some bug fixes, and an updated UI. I'm going to go in-depth into all the changes in the posts below. You can use the following few links to hop around if you want to find a specific section.


1. Stat Changes

2. New UI

3. Engine updates / Fixes

4. What's next!

5. Closing remarks

*Edit*

Just adding a quote that needs to be posted here in order to remind players what is to be that this thread is not supposed to be used as a soapbox or a general Q&A forum. All posts that do not stick to the topic of the thread (in other words, are best suited in another thread/forum) will be automatically deleted.

quote:

This isn't the catch all for every complaint you have about things.

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=21854944 <---- This lists out a lot of threads. There's class threads in there. If you have a question or issue with a class, post it in the specific class thread. If it's a general issue that has a thread as well. Please search first and pick the appropriate threads from now on. This is supposed to be about 14.0 engine changes, not classes, not lore questions, not "I'm having trouble with X quest".






Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 16:09:50)

1. Stat Changes


After the release of 9.0.1 there were a bunch of stat changes that happened and a bunch of class changes that happened. At the time they worked as intended but over time things like power creep and stat inflation caused some of the things to interact in a way that caused a large power imbalance. Things like monster health got out of control and Crit became the only stat worth having. That changes today!




To start though I'm going to go over some of the things that you should already know. If you're new to the game this is a good way to get familiar with the stats and what you should expect out of them.

The Warrior base classes


The Warrior base class, Dragon Warrior class, and the Riftwalker class, use Strength (Str) for their main damage stat. They can use the Sword, Mace, Axe, and Scythe item types with no issues. You should only be using one of those weapon types if you're one of those classes.

The Mage base classes


The Mage base class, Dragon Mage class, and the Ascendant class, use Intellect (Int) for their main damage stat. They can use the Staff, Wand, Dagger, and Scythe item types with no issues. You should only be using one of those weapon types if you're one of those classes.

The Rogue base classes


The Rogue base class, Dragon Rogue class, and the Cryptic class, use Dexterity (Dex) for their main damage stat. They can use the Dagger and Scythe item types with no issues. You should only be using one of those weapon types if you're one of those classes.

All Other Classes

The other classes in the game can use any weapon type without issues. It IS recommended that you stick to the same Main Stat and Weapon types as your base class though.




Main Stats


Str / Dex / Int - Every 10 points gives you +1 damage. No cap. This rounds down, so if you have 59 points you would get +5 damage.

The old formula was a confusing mess. It had harsh break points, you couldn't really "max" it properly, and it had a bunch of weird conversions that had to take place in the engine to give you your "bonus" damage. It was just a mess. I've simplified this in order to allow you all to know exactly how much extra damage you'll be doing, at any point, with a simple check of your stats. No complex math needed. These should be where you're looking for extra damage from if you're just going to smack at your enemies with a pointy weapon.

End - Every point gives you +5 HP.

No change needed.

Wis - Every point gives you +5 MP.

Wis was considered a "dump stat". By that I mean you just dumped a few points into it and you were good forever. Now you're going to have to consider how mana intensive your class is, the length of the quest and the boss fight, and figure out the ideal balance of Wis to give you enough mana. Mana intensive classes are going to require you to put more points in Wis and that's OK! You should have to think a bit about your stat setup and tweak it to fit your preferred class.

Cha - Every 10 points gives your pets and guests +1 damage. No cap. This rounds down, so if you have 59 points you would get +5 damage.

Old Cha didn't really do much at all to help your pets and guests. Now if you'd like to try a "Beast Master" build you'll be able to. You'll need to make the choice to focus either on pets and guests or on weapon damage. If you focus on both you'll do decent damage but it won't be amazing.

Luk - Luk/25 boost to hit chance, Luk/20 chance to avoid attack, Luk/20 increased Crit Chance, Luk/20 to damage.

Luk previously didn't do much. It only affected two things and putting points into this stat didn't benefit you at all. Now you can get a benefit if you invest in Luk. You get a bunch of benefits now in terms of what the stat does but nothing that makes the stat "better" than any other. You can now make the choice, if you want to, to go for a "lucky" build and it'll actually pan out if you do.


Secondary Stats


Bonus - Every point increases your chance to hit by 1%. This is taken into account after initial M/P/M B/P/D checks are made and can counter them if it's not an auto "miss" from them being over the "auto miss" cap.

This didn't need any changing. It's does what it says, it's a Bonus to your chance to Hit.

Crit - (Crit on item)/2, rounded down. Capped at 50 possible from items and Luk. (Cap does not affect skills or passives)

Yes, I already see the torches and pitchforks from several of you. Yes, this is a direct and large nerf to the stat. You now only get half the amount from an item, rounded down, and you're capped at 50 max from anywhere but a skill. This means that no, your 70% chance to crit and just roffle stomping on enemies can't happen anymore. You should never be focusing on a secondary stat, ever, in such a way that every item in the game is judged on how much crit it gives. That's wrong on every level. Yes, crit is still useful but at an appropriate level. Now Auto Crit skills on classes will be much more appealing and we don't have to push monster health as far up all the time as we used to. We can now get back to how the game's progression and turn structure was intended. I know it's going to be a hard thing for a lot of the forum going population to accept since it's been this way for years but it needed to happen. The best thing I can tell you guys is to go play a few of the quests with the lessened crit rate before being angry. In testing we found that it actually didn't feel all that slow with how much damage most armors are able to do now. It was noticible, but it wasn't that detrimental.

Melee / Pierce / Magic - Every point = 1% chance for an attack to miss. Checked against Bonus. 100 overrides Bonus check and makes all hits miss.

This didn't need any changes. It was already doing what it was supposed to.

Block / Parry / Dodge - Every 2 points - 1% chance for an attack to miss. Checked against Bonus. 200 overrides Bonus check and makes all hits miss.

B/P/D previously had a diminishing returns cap set at 80 points. Even AT 80 points though you would never be able have all attacks miss you. It made DC classes defense skills useless for the most part and made any class that had this on any part worthless. Now it provides actual defense and caps out at double what M/P/M does. You do need a lot more of it now but any points ARE helpful.

Elemental Resistances - Lowers the damage of [element] by 1%. Capped at 80 for 80% lowered damage from [element]. (Cap does not affect skills)

This was getting into that dangerous territory that crit was. Not only were you able to just stomp all over monsters damage wise, if it was a darkness monster they wouldn't be able to DAMAGE some of you. Some players had figured out how to totally negate Darkness resistance and by level 100 would be very close, if not over that point, with several others. This change means that you can get an amazing amount of protection against an element but you can't ever negate it just from items all the time. Skills like Necromancer's Shroud are not affected though so you can still get several turns of total protection from any element through skills.




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 16:10:00)

2. U.I. changes


It's pretty isn't it? Tomix went above and beyond on this one and I'm just going to point out a few things.

New log-in screens! - There are now two new screens that can randomly appear when you first log in.

New Character Select screens! - Yes that old boring screen has now been updated to not only have a few new backgrounds but a much cleaner look overall!

New Buttons and Overall Art - Tomix updated a bunch of the art to make it look more like a "fantasy" game.

New base interface - The whole bottom bar has received a new look! New art, and a brand new Magnifying Glass icon! (This replaced the (?) icon that was previously there.) This new icon will take you to the monster info panel so you can see all kinds of info on the monster. You can still click your health bar, or your guest's health bars, to see yours, or your guest's, info panel.

Merge shops preview - You can now preview any merge items, not just weapons!

DC item color change - DC items sorta blended in with other items in the basic inventory and shops. Now they have their own text color to stand out like DA items and Artifacts.




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 16:10:14)

3. Engine updates / Fixes


Going along with this update we did several fixes to things. Most are background and things you all don't need to know about because they're stuff for us but a few that affect you all are....

- I streamlined as much of the background battle engine coding as I could.

- Quest log can now be locked from opening like the "you can't teleport out of this quest" so we don't have to do what we did with the Baby/Toddler/Kid dragon armors during the dragon war which caused loading lag for some people.

- Guest dragon cannot be summoned mid battle or mid quest any longer. This is a fix to prevent the glitch where you could summon him/her, use Primal Fury, summon him/her again, and the cooldown on Primal Fury disappeared so you could just spam it all the way through the quest. That was not an intended function of the summon and people were abusing it.

- Bunches of small bugs like the Dragon Training screen showing 500 total possible when the cap actually is 600.




There is a lot that we weren't able to do but we are working on for future updates because you all keep asking for them. I wanted to go over a couple of them here so that you're aware of what we know you all want.

Multi sell/destroy - This requires a Database level fix that Verly and I don't have access to. We can do everything EXCEPT that small bit of Database work. It's on the list of fixes we're requesting when someone with access has time.

Armor saving - YES, we're trying to get this done. This is the very top of the request list for someone with access but, again, it requires a level of access that neither Verly nor I have. It's the thing we're pushing to get fixed first though.




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 16:10:30)

4. What's next!


There's still a few parts of this update that have to happen later. The stats part was only step 1 in the entire process.



More UI updates!

We want to make things like the stats pane easier to read because there is a lot of info on there. Sadly I wasn't able to get scrollable text boxes working for this release. That would have allowed you to scroll down the resistance pane to see effect that get hidden as well as being able to scroll down merge shops and see required items that are hidden. Because of how DF was built I have to come up with a workaround as where the boxes are right now prevents the right coding from going on them.

There is also going to be some other visual updates to lots of different places as we get them done!




Step 2


Make average damages for weapons per level and per TYPE the same.


A level 75 DA quest reward weapon shouldn't have a different Average Damage than another level 75 DA quest reward weapon. What do I mean by Average Damage though?

50-50
25-75
30-70
40-60
45-55

All of those ranges have the exact same Average Damage, 50. If you go through all the weapons in the game and look at a random selection of the same level and type (like level 70 DC for example) you'll see that they DON'T all match up. They're supposed to for the most part though. Now, this doesn't mean that every weapon will be the same. Some will get a boost to their range if they're a Doom Weapon, or a War Reward, or a Special Offer Item. But THOSE should all have the same average damage in their own group. I know if may not seem like a big deal to a lot of you but when it comes down to making sure things work out math wise it makes a BIG difference. During this change over you may notice that some weapons are going to seem to deal more than they used to, that's going to be true.




Step 3


Adjust item stats across the board


This is similar to the weapon average damage thing. You should only have a specific amount of points total on an item per level. Some weapons and items go WAY over that limit so they need to be toned back. Some don't have enough and are in a weird under powered state. Also, like the weapon change, this means there will be separate items that get more points per level, such as the Defender Items. This is going to take even longer but it'll mean that you'll have Offensive, Defensive, Balanced, and "Fiesta" items.

Offensive - These will focus more on your main stats (Str/Dex/Int) and things like Crit/Bonus. They'll still have things like M/P/M and End/Wis, but the majority of the points will be in damage.

Defensive - These will focus more on things like M/P/M, End/Wis, and Ele Resistances. They'll still have damage stats but at a much lower amount.

Balanced - These will be pretty much dead center between the above. They will have LESS total stats because you are getting both sides but they'll let you pick some of both.

Fiesta! - Some items will just have crazy stats, like a ring that has -35 to Health or Mana but not really many other stats. These are more meant to have fun and really just be funky one off items that just are there to mess around with.




There's no ETA on when all this will happen but it's not going to take too long for it all to get started. We have less of a "sweep" that has to be done than AQ but it's still a fairly large project.

NO THIS DOES NOT MEAN DF IS TURNING INTO AQ! I know that's going through some of your minds. Not even close, DF is a totally different game. What's happening is we're trying to move it more towards giving you all a reliable way to pick stats, items, and classes so you know going in how you want to play the game. If you want to pick offense you can do that, if you want to pick defense you can do that, if you want to just pick both you can also do that! This is all so you can make more informed choices while also allowing someone who is brand new to pick the game right up and immediately be able to succeed.




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 16:10:35)

5. Closing remarks


This was a very large release and it means a lot of changes that you all will have to get used to! While change can sometimes be a scary thing, we're confident that it'll be a smooth adjustment as we iron over bumps like monster HP spikes. All of us on the team worked very hard to get this change out to you as early as possible. From the entire DF team, thank you for playing and sticking with us over the years as changes have occurred.

If you have any questions feel free to ask!





Zork Knight -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 18:54:57)

Will the Crit given in item description be updated eventually, or would that take way too long?




Verlyrus -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 18:59:46)

quote:

Will the Crit given in item description be updated eventually, or would that take way too long?


The problem here is that Crit is not as linear anymore, so the amount of crit given per item would vary depending on how much crit you have overall.




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:00:12)

That's going to be addressed in a follow up update. The stats panel is going to have "Crit" there adjusted to something like "Critical % chance" or something similar to give you an actual indication of what that number really does.




Christophoses -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:02:44)

OMG, I love this update! DF just got a million times better. I especially love the new title screen music!




Mordred -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:06:07)

One part of this update that makes me sad is that my MP shrank pretty dramatically, from low 2000s to ~1300-1400 range. Oh well. I suppose 2000 was a tad excessive...




AugustoCP -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:08:03)

I'm not specially fond of this update, but I understand it was somewhat necessary, but the WIS nerf really sucks. [:@] Uncalled for.




NagisaXIkari -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:08:58)

What are you playing as that 2000 MP is needed?

Death Knight for days?




AugustoCP -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:10:11)

Self-sustaining Chronomancer. I want to be able to, if planning carefully, defeat regular opponents with more HP and more MP than I started the fight with, so I can fight indefinetely. If only Chronomancer's MP regain skill wasn't about as weak as Mage's...




Mordred -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:10:23)

It's not uncalled for. I said it made me sad, not that it was a bad change. Mostly because I wanted my HP and MP to be in the same ballpark area.

I definitely wan more Fiesta! items. I got the Fiesta! Aventail specifically because it's fun to mess with.




koujaku -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:18:26)

DF looks so pretty now! But I've noticed that my pet dragon is dealing 0 damage :(




raylas -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:20:43)

Oooooh, shiny! I love the UI update, looks very nice!

*goes to check my stats in battle* Huh, don't feel that different. I'm hitting about the same, dodging, crit was never part of my strategy anyways. Only difference that even come close to impacting me is Wisdom, but I've still got more than enough HP and MP.

Mana might be a bit of an issue when using DoomKnight, since that thing eats MP like candy, but that's my class for wars and blowing off steam, so I don't need to keep it sustained for long enough to pose an issue. I normally main TimeKiller, so I can run through multiple quests before I feel like I need to heal, provided I don't run across any nasty surprises.

Oh, you changed luck! That's great, Luck and wisdom were the stats I was investing in before the changes anyways, this is just added incentive!


Thanks Ash, Thanks Verlyrus! I really like this!




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:27:59)

quote:

DF looks so pretty now! But I've noticed that my pet dragon is dealing 0 damage :(

Working on a fix for that now. It didn't show up in testing so trying to track down the issues now.




11eo1 -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:32:39)

Wait, Mages can use daggers?!?

Not sure if this was intentional, but the buttons in the book of lore aren't are gold ans shiny like the new ones. Also, I prefered when the scythe symbol was just the elemental symbol and no little scythe above it.




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:34:07)

The BoL update is happening later. It's an entirely separate interface and Tomix didn't have time. Same for the Bank and several others.




pyrox125 -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:36:41)

Yes! "Save armor" neeeeds to be top priority I need to save that Master Soulweaver Class, I love that you brought that up. Makes me so happy that ya'll listen to us !!!!!!![:)]




admahu -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:38:20)

Not a big deal but the Pandora weapon still(?) shows a sword image in the inventory instead of the new scythe one. A bigger deal, the new scythe image doesn't work when in the bank screen, shows a big blank square instead.

edit: scrolling in the bank made the squares switch to random things, like armor or loot bags


I fixed the Pandora scythe/sword issue. Ash will have to take a look at the scythe image for the bank screen ~M4B




11eo1 -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:41:24)

I can still invite my dragon mid-quest




Ash -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:41:56)

admahu - We're working through the "scythe's that aren't looking like scythe's" as we have time. The bank is also a separate interface that we have to manually update. There's a lot that needs to be done to it to make it work right. We may be converting it into a normal interface when we do to fix those issues.




Recynon -> RE: =DF= Version 14.0.1 (2/23/2015 19:51:51)

I prefer the old UI, where I could critical 3 times out of 5 with Riftwalker.




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