RE: Is magic worth it? (Full Version)

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David the Wanderer -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 20:39:04)

That's past the point. In the end, a gun has only one function: shooting bullets. Just like an axe is only good for cutting things. (Also, cauterizing wounds with a flamethrower is a very bad idea)

Magic is more versatile. A mage can learn magic that makes it rain, magic that heals wounds, magic that burns things, magic that hits people so hard it cracks bones, magic that lets you communicate with someone on the other side of the world... But in the end, it's always magic. Magic is versatile, incredibly so. The versatility of a gun is context-dependant, but not for magic. Magic can do anything.




FriendOfAFriend -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 22:05:21)

I think one of the questions the Rose should ask themselves is, would they be able to defeat beings like Wargoth, Seppy, Xan ect without the use of magic? If they were put in the situation, would they be able to handle it?

'They wouldn't need to if magic never existed in the first place/wasn't allowed' isn't an option, because I don't think people like Xan or Seppy really care about the rules. So yeah.




kors -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 22:18:17)

@FriendOfAFriend: And that is why they are trying to get rid of the source of Magic, the Mana Core, If you can't draw out mana that naturally exists, you can't use magic. Period. Of course that means killing just about everything that is connected to it... And I am unsure how that works for foreign beings like Wargoth and the Alteans...




Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 22:40:57)

*sigh* the point is that magic, while having numerous beneficial applications, can also cause unparalleled devastation in the hands of just a few individuals. It makes sense to attempt to curb its excesses and prevent this destruction in the first place rather than trying to mitigate it.

How the Rose is going to do this is the crux of the matter. They're obviously not bothering with man-made laws, and rightly so. But I don't see any evidence that they're targeting the Mana Core or trying to end magic altogether. This seems to be a curiously widespread presumption - is there any basis for it? As far as I know, we have only seen the Rose's motivations and impact so far, and still know nothing of their ultimate aim and precise methods.





Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 22:46:25)

Book three is literally called the end of magic and something tells me that might happen for a short time leading to a dying world.


Yes magic is worth it because the alternative is far worse.




FriendOfAFriend -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/1/2016 0:13:10)

I guess the means of which I chose to use that example wasn't very wise, haha. I'm just of the belief of magic>no magic.




ShadowMoon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/1/2016 4:16:27)

well, ms tried to end almost all magic(among quite a few other things) once already & that warlic using magic to try & stop the flood of darkness which resulted in wargoth. in fact, magic can't really be blamed for wargoth because that had more to do with warlic's unique biology. wargoth would have probably come out eventually due to some other means and warlic's father could come to lore at any given moment




solomi123 -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/1/2016 5:44:11)

quote:


I never said they couldn't, only that they don't NEED to. Anyone can draw from it, but only people native to Lore need to as that is their connection to magic. If they leave Lore they can then attempt to tap into another source of magic such as the Void or indirectly to an elemental plane.


From your ex-resident Voidwalker

With that knowledge, we can agreed on that "ending magic" is virtually impossible. Even if the Rose manage to cut off Lorians connections with the Mana Core or trying to destroy it and blow up the planet in the process we can still draws upon other sources like Ash said.

So if you want to end magic completely, you'll have to go on a road trip throughout the universe trying to destroy every sources of magic in existence including the Void and the E Planes, which is impossible even for Cysero's standard.




Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/1/2016 9:49:56)

quote:

*sigh* the point is that magic, while having numerous beneficial applications, can also cause unparalleled devastation in the hands of just a few individuals. It makes sense to attempt to curb its excesses and prevent this destruction in the first place rather than trying to mitigate it.

How the Rose is going to do this is the crux of the matter. They're obviously not bothering with man-made laws, and rightly so. But I don't see any evidence that they're targeting the Mana Core or trying to end magic altogether. This seems to be a curiously widespread presumption - is there any basis for it? As far as I know, we have only seen the Rose's motivations and impact so far, and still know nothing of their ultimate aim and precise methods.


The only hint of messing with the mana system itself that I'm aware of is the research on the ley lines and such that Magus Hansa had, which is hardly evidence of anything but due diligence on studying their 'opponent'; I think people just jumped to the worst possible conclusion because what we first saw of the Rose was a stereotypical villainous group, which typically has a nonsensical villainous plot they're trying to accomplish. What seems more likely, and is something we do have evidence of through that same book, is removing the ability of individuals to access the ley lines and thus use magic. It's said to be incredibly risky for both involved, but extreme measures aren't exactly outside the purview of the Rose.

That said, how would you regulate magic without either "bothering with man-made laws" (in which I would include the magic-removal, if it's used as a punishment/targeted preventative measure against individuals) or targeting the source of the power (in which I would include a forced all-including removal of magic as well)? Specifically, how do you prevent those destructive events from happening without also preventing great things from being done with magic? Honestly, a system of laws and a more-inclusive teaching of magic seems like the only way to me, letting everyone have access to magical knowledge so that any one 'villain' would have to contend with many other people of similar power. Again, it equates with technology; we form alliances of countries so that no one country with nefarious intent can do as they please due to technological superiority. Individuals are obviously not the same as countries, but the same general principle applies. It would also strengthen Lore against the real threat; outside forces. MS is a being from another dimension, Seppy was created by MS, Wargoth happened because of MS and is himself from another world/dimension. We had the whole Akriloth/Drakonnan thing, and that was big, but it might have been handled more easily if more people had real magical power. Even if not, while it required a war and it had many casualties, conflict is not something that can be strictly avoided, no matter whether there's magic or not; wars will happen regardless.




Grandpa Oz -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/1/2016 11:13:26)

Nobody making up an argument how the new quest shows that being separated from magic entirely doesn't kill you? I'm disappointed XD




Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/1/2016 13:23:57)

1 - Humans aren't magical creatures, did anyone even think that?
2 - He never said he was "separated from magic entirely," just that he couldn't use magic.
3 - We already knew that it was possible to remove someone's connection to the ley lines, (potentially) without killing them. Though if that someone is a magical creature... I dunno.




Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/1/2016 18:01:01)

....magic is in the blood even if you cant use it ITS STILL THERE or are you saying san robin is immune to lycanthropy and vampirism and before you say its a magical curse please replay the blood and roses saga they go into what lycanthropy is...light elemental magic in your blood overtaking the other elements (let us also remember that ALL of the elements are in there as well as darkness hence why vampirism works) to end all magic they have to DESTROY your blood as well.




ShadowMoon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/1/2016 18:06:56)

quote:

Nobody making up an argument how the new quest shows that being separated from magic entirely doesn't kill you? I'm disappointed XD

san robin is not separated from magic, its a deficiency. also that was a reference to anemia




Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/2/2016 9:14:27)

@Dark Lord Urmi - Elements are not the same thing as magic. Elementally-aligned virus-like cells are not the same thing as magic.




Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/2/2016 9:20:55)

please explain how they are not magic in detail. because those "virus" like cells turn people into bipedal wolves and walking bloodsucking corpses and god knows what the other elements do if they outnumber the others.




elixxon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/2/2016 11:50:21)

quote:

*sigh* the point is that magic, while having numerous beneficial applications, can also cause unparalleled devastation in the hands of just a few individuals. It makes sense to attempt to curb its excesses and prevent this destruction in the first place rather than trying to mitigate it.

Here comes the law of balance.
The opposing forces are strong because they are facing each other. Their constant battle strenghtens both of them.
Even though the magic of a villain can nuke a town the magic of a hero can block it out and even fight back with the same force.
Destruction itself cannot be stopped by getting rid of magical power since someone will fight with someone. The only reason Lore's fantasy world can be so "good" is that they are fighting forces that are purely "evil".
The ending of an other game gives a nice explanation of the concept, although in that game two factions are fighting each other in a kinda pointless war while fighting back evil forces that are seeking the world's total annihilation.




Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/2/2016 18:52:08)

Viruses do things to the native cells in a body, things which can include mutation. At the cellular level, it's easy to alter something, it just requires intelligence in order to have that change be something that doesn't just kill you or make you sick. Also, I don't agree with the assumption that people naturally have cells like that of all elements inside of them, with transformation happening just due to an imbalance. The impression I got was that the cells were something foreign (we certainly didn't see any others anyway).




elixxon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/3/2016 16:25:06)

^--- seems right

So let's say the living is made of
light
dark
fire
earth
air
water
energy
ice
nature
wood.
... no bacon because as we know it was created in an "accident" of a certaing God who wishes not to speak of this.

If we view theese elements like minerals and vitamins IRL their imbalance would cause disaeases and disorders like such deficiancies do but of course in a very-very drastic way since it is magic.
I imagine a lycantory or vampirism virus would mess up the host's elemental balance and cause the body to mutate in it's unstable state.




Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/3/2016 18:42:57)

im looking for it now but there is a line that says its an imbalance of the elements.

edit: found it replay the quest bloodwork in the blood and roses questline Neron he says ALMOST virally and calls them elemental infusions therefore it magic! he even suggests a possible cure is to drain small amounts of magic from the blood




Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/3/2016 19:44:00)

Yeah, you're right, it does seem to be magical in nature. It's somewhat confusing though because Chaney says "she has... magic in her veins" as an explanation of why Thursday's immune (which also shows that elements are indeed inherently magical, as it's because one of her parents was an elemental), but then Safiria tells Raven, "I can sense a touch of her blood in your veins." So, Lycanthropy is caused by a very small amount of Light magic getting into the blood while a large amount does nothing? I dunno, like I said it's confusing.




ShadowMoon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (5/3/2016 20:10:00)

thursday is half light elemental, so there's clearly some biological & magical traits that differ greatly from regular humans & werewolves
also, i'm betting thursday's light if a different type of light then the light in werewolves.




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