RE: Is magic worth it? (Full Version)

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Onyx Darkmatter -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/27/2016 10:02:12)

Well, I can understand the use of Magic to eliminate Magic; there is a saying: Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
But really, I do hope someone were to drain every single magic from the Rose group so that we can hear their loud hypocrisy.



Nitewolf -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/27/2016 10:11:26)

^I'd start with Jaania herself. All this talk about banning the use of magic, and yet she continues using her own.



DarkLore -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/27/2016 10:41:51)

I guess its fight ice with ice in her case? LOL! See what I did there? Or as Uncle from Jackie Chan Adventures would say... "MAGIC MUST DEFEAT MAGIC!"



Onyx Darkmatter -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/27/2016 11:20:55)

quote:

^I'd start with Jaania herself. All this talk about banning the use of magic, and yet she continues using her own.

Sounds good to me. Deprive her of using magic, and then the Rose itself, and then we can see how they do. After all, she's no better than any other villains we've encountered (or worse; at least with villains like Sek Duat, they're honest about it with pride; Jaania prefers to be in denial in her fundamentalist thought that she's "saving" lives when she's only hurting them).

If, in some rare occasion (or plot reasons), they did thought this through, then I would've liked to see their plans. Otherwise, they seem like they're planning on taking over and rule Lore with an Iron Fist (especially Akanthus).



brotherinlaw -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/27/2016 18:20:33)

Wow, this thread's still around?

Honestly guys, I think Jaania would be okay with losing all her magic if it meant the loss of all magic. She strikes me as the honest, well meaning type who had her life taken by something and can only see the evil in it now. It's not that she's hypocratic, just blinded by all that's been lost in the world due to magic so she can't see the good that we have because of it.

Not that I support her. I'd take a magic Lore that will become magi-scientific Lorean over Dark-age earth becoming corruption, bureaucracy, and politics laden earth.



Brasca123 -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/27/2016 18:32:06)

@above. FAQ'd threads stay around for as long as forum staff wants them too IIRC, so someone can always revive them



ShadowMoon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/27/2016 18:52:59)

quote:

I guess its fight ice with ice in her case? LOL! See what I did there? Or as Uncle from Jackie Chan Adventures would say... "MAGIC MUST DEFEAT MAGIC!"

and then cysero would swipe uncle's magic sock

quote:

Well, I can understand the use of Magic to eliminate Magic; there is a saying: Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.
But really, I do hope someone were to drain every single magic from the Rose group so that we can hear their loud hypocrisy.

drain it? that would kill them. though i'm sure there's curse around somewhere that that would make so they couldn't cast spells or use magic items.



Onyx Darkmatter -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/27/2016 21:40:14)

quote:

I think Jaania would be okay with losing all her magic if it meant the loss of all magic. She strikes me as the honest, well meaning type who had her life taken by something and can only see the evil in it now. It's not that she's hypocratic, just blinded by all that's been lost in the world due to magic so she can't see the good that we have because of it.

Nobody would've given a penny if she's fine losing her magic, but implementing the ideals into action and forcing it is another issue; that's totalitarianism.
So did people like Zhoom, or Valencia, or Aquella, or even Galanoth, and we have yet to see them going around and blame Magic as the cause of their suffering; whereas you have Jaania froze to death and revived, only to whine about how magic has caused havoc.
It's understandable that she may have lost hope for magic, but that's because she has failed to see any good in Magic; she's just an infant in a grown woman's body.

quote:

drain it? that would kill them. though i'm sure there's curse around somewhere that that would make so they couldn't cast spells or use magic items.

It's fine by me. The Rose wanted to eliminate magic, so let them drain their magic away first. If they die, then the ones alive will realize that their "utopia" is merely fiction.



ShadowMoon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/28/2016 4:10:48)

guess its time to start cuffing rose soldiers with their own magic binding hand cuffs. we don't want them getting away as we feed their magic to whatever the most dementors-like creature on lore is.



solomi123 -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/28/2016 8:00:27)

Jaania = Sylvanas

*grab popcorn*



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/28/2016 13:30:18)

Shadowmoon i actually think that may be fleshweaver at this point XD



Elloisoul -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/28/2016 14:52:44)

@op yes magic is like equivalent to our worlds Technology/Electricty/Oil you be taking away something that has been used since the start and if people say its done some bad well doesnt that apply to our world, us using Oil and Gas and making our world more urban killing nature it self why hasnt anyone stop that while technology made things convenient for us to live like internet cars phones etc didnt technology also created deadly things like , guns Nukes , Napalm , Poison gas etc its like that Magic is simply depends on the user and we have gone far that we cant easily give it up unless there is something that can replace that that is equivalent or better So unless Jania can show us she can live with out using magic like finding some Mech Quest mech and reintroducing that to civilization her plans of a Magic free world is a punch to the moon



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/28/2016 16:17:54)

the nature of the universe was changed, even with the mechquest gear removing magic entirely is dooming everything. jaania's anti-magic campaign was doomed from the start.



ShadowMoon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/28/2016 16:27:16)

quote:

Shadowmoon i actually think that may be fleshweaver at this point XD

but will weaving their hands & mouths together really stop them from casting spells?



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/28/2016 16:32:30)

hey dementors eat souls i was going on the eating thing XD though i wouldn't doubt the could do SOMETHING to mess with their magic.



ShadowMoon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/28/2016 23:20:50)

kinda hard to cast spells without a brain.
oooo we can turn them into zardbies![8D]



elixxon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/29/2016 2:52:14)

Didn't got to Book 3 yet so I don't know abut the details... answering the question alone:

Magic is a form of power. Power is going to be misused or expoited no matter what.
"Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."
Even if you remove all magic power from Lore there will be people using military force or religious influence for their benefit destroying other's lives in the process for example.

Trying to get world peace through removing a form of power is futile because power still exist in other forms.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/29/2016 7:20:51)

^

This is the same argument against gun regulation btw. Though with the sheer destructive power an individual magic user can have, the more appropriate analogy is probably a nuclear bomb....we have plenty of conventional weapons that can collectively do as much damage as a nuclear bomb, but there's a good reason why we strictly regulate nuclear weapons nonetheless.

I want to hear Jaania's grand plan before I make a verdict. I support the idea of regulating magic to curb its worst excesses, but the Rose hasn't convinced me that they have a solid plan. Devil's always in the details, but that doesn't mean that we can't have a partial solution.



Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 9:03:30)

That's a terrible comparison; magic is not strictly a weapon of mass destruction, it's also a tool of mass salvation, a healing force as well as a hurting force. Magic is too broad a category to be likened to one single object, so I'll make the obvious comparison that magic is like technology; it can be used to do practically anything, from wondrous to disastrous. Magic in DF is obviously much more potent than even our level of technology of course, but as Clarke's third law states, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Just give us a few centuries. :P

In any case, if all Jaania wanted was stricter regulations on magic - much like the many regulations we have on technology - we wouldn't be in this situation in the first place. Enslaving innocent sentient beings just because they have magic, for starters, is beyond unacceptable.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 9:58:34)

^

Guns can be used for legitimate purposes too, like hunting for rural families. And nuclear energy is our biggest shot at mitigating global warming.

The Beastmaster, who bears all the characteristics of a Rose slave, seems pretty happy to be in chains and serving under Jaania. However badly implementation turned out under Zadd, Saellah and Akanthus, the initial concept seems to have more benign and even mutually beneficial intent.



Sakurai the Cursed -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 11:22:56)

That they can be used for legitimate purposes is not the point at all; their only use is destruction, even if that destruction helps some people (hint: purposeful destruction always does, or else it wouldn't have happened in the first place). Nuclear energy is better, yeah, but Magic is much more than a weapon or a source of energy, and painting it as such by comparing it to something like guns or nuclear bombs is rather misleading.

And we're still not sure of the Beastmaster's reasons for being there, let alone his happiness (the vibe I got from him seemed more like he reluctantly agreed that there would be some benefit to his being there, which could as easily be from threats of escalated violence/torture against his 'subjects' if he doesn't cooperate [though personally I think it'll turn out to be something like "adventurers will stop beating us unconscious on their daily strolls if we're no longer a threat;" honeyed words to promote willing slavery]), but it doesn't even matter whether he's happy or not. That one being happy must mean it was a good system to start with is a pretty intense pars pro toto fallacy; using one example to represent all.



David the Wanderer -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 14:00:59)

Basically, you can't heal somebody by shooting at them. :P Magic is much more diverse in its applications than firearms, or even nuclear energy



ShadowMoon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 14:32:58)

well, you can under certain circumstances. sometimes its best to shoot someone in their legs in order to save them from themselves



megakyle777 -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 14:35:30)

Shadowmoon: While I get your POINT... that's not really healing them even if it's for good reasons. That's breaking their legs. It's sort of the opposite of healing. In fact it's about as far from healing as you can get.



ShadowMoon -> RE: Is magic worth it? (4/30/2016 18:15:00)

like i said, depends on the circumstances. sometimes its better to sacrifice the legs rather then the life itself.
its also a good way to prevent someone from jumping off a skyscraper.
also as stated before guns are useful for hunting food, its not like everyone can kill a rabbit by throwing a knife at it.
its not just guns.
a flamethrower can be used to cauterize a wound
an axe can be used to chop off a limb that if kept would kill off the rest of the body.
radiation is used to cure/stave off cancer
besides, its not like all magic summons demonic overlords from extra dimensional planes of existence.



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