RE: Is magic worth it? (Full Version)

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Solanaceae -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/7/2015 18:37:25)

Remember that Sepulchure used the Ice Orb to extinguish Xan while collecting all of the orbs in Book 1, and it looks like the Pyromancer was pretty okay, though apparently unable to use magic or something.

I'm too lazy to find the quest or staff member post about how long Jaania was trapped inside the crystal ice, by Hopeful Guy's Complete Guide to Being an Average Dragonfable Player says thus:

quote:

. . . Jaania, understandably, doesn't particularly like magic, since it did cause her to be frozen in time for 200 years . . .


Jaania also didn't want the Rose to enslave magical creatures:

quote:

Kara SuLema: They are shells of who they are and slaves. Was slavery a part of your magical cleansing?

*Jaania closes her eyes and looks at the floor with regret.*

Jaania: No... no, slaves were not. Slaves aren't what I stand for... I do not make slaves.
Kara SuLema: Jaania?
Jaania: I just want a world of peace. I want to avoid the mistakes of the past. I want... my heart to feel as if it wasn't weighed down by pain and loss.

~From the quest An Uncertain Future.

I admit that Jaania's regret thing is more subjective than objective, but it seems like the most probably interpretation from its context in the quest.



Rezilia -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/7/2015 18:38:06)

Thanks for the info! :D

Just be clear, not to get too off-topic, but wasn't Slugwrath in power one generation ago? I mean, Alteon came to power a few years before he had children, right?

If this is the case, then many mages would have remembered that it was during Slugwrath's reign that they had more power instead of Alteon's populist reign. I wonder if Drakath could try to re-take the throne with their aid...

The way this has been built up, Alteon is bound to have huge critics now that he's banned magic, whether the majority wanted him to do so or not.



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/7/2015 18:39:13)

^

Faerdin's latter point is backed up in this quest. IIRC the Rose said that Xan was alive, but not in his lair at the moment.



Solanaceae -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/7/2015 18:41:51)

King Slugwrath, who sired Prince Drakath, was in power a generation ago. It's implied that his ancestors were also kings and rulers in their respective time periods. The Drakathian Sigil shows that they were at least in existence for a very long time, on par with Sek Duat and Lord Frydae.



Faerdin -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/7/2015 18:44:06)

@Durian: If I correctly recall, Xan was not extinguished at any point.

quote:

Breaking Crystal

<Character>: If it's an ice crystal... couldn't fire melt on its own?
Xan: Can ice freeze my fire? Even the Ice Orb itself couldn't fully stop the burning in my skull, ahahahahHAHAHAAA.
Xan: And my attempts at mastering ice magic as a human torch... were not successful, HAH!
Xan: Her prison is more like mine than you know.... HAHAHA!

But it did seem to dampen his powers quite a bit until he could stoke his flames again. :)

@ckdragonck: Drakath exploiting magic user frustration for a chance to take back the throne? That actually sounds pretty interesting!



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/7/2015 18:49:07)

Uhhh...I think most of the magic users we see rebelling against the Rose would rather have a Sneevil on the throne.



Faerdin -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/7/2015 19:03:18)

History has seen bad rulers and unpopular people seize power with the promise of putting an end to hardship and suffering.

I certainly wouldn't want Drakath on the throne. But the idea does have merit -- I could imagine mages growing desperate enough to stop The Rose that they would rally around anyone they could.



VJ -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/7/2015 20:42:37)

@Epic Durian
She may not have wanted it, but she is allowing it to happen and has been able to turn a blind eye to it for a very long time, until that quest you referenced because it was shoved in her face, yet it seems like she still doesn't care about what's going on or else she would have done something about it by now.



solomi123 -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 2:33:21)

@VJ
Plot twist, she literally can't do anything about it without causing major chaos to the rest of the kingdom



David the Wanderer -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 3:18:31)

Considering that Slugwrath's reign is remembered as a time of darkness and evil ruling the land, of tyranny and constant fear... Yeah, I don't think anybody misses that time. Mages didn't have more power under Slugwrath, and they certainly don't miss him. Nobody but Drakath thinks it'd be better if his father was still king.

What a lot of people seem to miss is that the Rose is supported not only by Alteon, but by a number of common people. Nevermind its members, but there are a lot of people who are tired of having their lives and homes destroyed because some goofy apprentice wizard messed up an alchemy test and their whole block was blown up; or people who don't want to have to kill the reanimated body of their dead friend again and again because that necromancer refuses to go away. There are even mages who support the Rose, and in fact it seems that what the Rose is doing right now is putting regulations on magic and magic items: join the Rose, and you get a "license".



Rezilia -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 3:49:27)

^

See, now the license thing seems like a much better system than causing the world to explode.



Faerdin -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 4:04:16)

The matter is not that of mages having more power back then. It is that mages and magical creatures weren't persecuted against in Slugwrath's time -- as far as we are able to tell. It would definitely require a good deal of hardship and desperation to make Drakath sound like a reasonable solution to anyone, but when mages are faced with the "comply or die" attitude of The Rose, you might be surprised to find some magic users out there willing to stomach a Slugwrath on the throne if they advocated for freedom of magic.

The opinions of the people may not be enough to sway an independent mage struggling to get by after the increased Rose presence in Swordhaven. And it is highly likely that the demographic Drakath hypothetically garnered support from would still be a terrible minority in comparison to support for The Rose -- but I don't think it would be too far-fetched to imagine the support being there to begin with.

Does it sound crazy? Of course. Drakath's an oaf, and a corrupt one at that. If this scenario were to play out, is it likely Drakath would accomplish anything more than its sheer existence as a crazy fringe group? Probably not. But Lore has known far crazier things to happen than a banished prince exploiting whatever anti-Rose sentiment could be aimed at Swordhaven.



VJ -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 6:59:16)

It seems the rose has forgotten a few things, people & magical based creatures backed into a corner or have nothing left to lose are far more dangerous then if those people had been left alone.

Now because of the weak willed Jaaina who is too scared to cause a little bit of bad PR than to get the very faction she created under control then she is no better then a puppet like the king is.

With the blind mage(whom in my opinion is a tad evil) & the mage(who is soured towards magic because of the lose of his kid) from Amityvile both stated that magic should be removed from lore.

Just from the rose mage(the only good one thus far) from Amityvile said that the world would be better off without magic.

to to me that shows the mindset of the entire rose faction, they want to get rid of all magic which puts the entire planet and all those whom live on it at risk as all life forms have magic flowing through their bodies.

Thus Magic needs to be protected at all cost, even if that means destroying a bunch of rose in the process(they get what they deserve if they go against the hero and willing to harm the planet they live on).



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 7:12:08)

We don't know what precisely the Rose is trying to do beyond restricting magic creatures and users, and the consequences of whatever larger plan they may have. I would consider it a disappointment and, indeed, bad writing if the Rose's plans were so obviously flawed as to destroy all life and Lore itself. As I have mentioned, there may be possible ways to eliminate the active use of magic without compromising life on Lore and the planet's existence, and it would be very interesting if the Rose's grand solution was of this sort.

Jaania may not be 'weak willed', she may simply be insufficiently powerful to lead the Rose without Akanthus and others who disagree with her. She has great proficiency in magic, but the Rose specializes in magic seals, and higher-tier members like Akanthus may be able to resist her spells.



VJ -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 7:29:13)

Only thing though SSM is that the way they treat magical creatures, turning them into mindless slaves, torture, or into research subjects and not caring if they kill those creatures.

Also how do we know if 'sealing' magic from the world won't have deadly consequences because of throwing the balance off(if not out right destroying the balance).

As to Jaaina, she is weak willed, lacks Morales, or just a puppet(or all three).



hidan_orochimaru -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 7:45:25)

But "restricting magic use" isn't the same as "destroying magic",VJ. The world won't be destroyed if some people stopped using magic. We already stated that magic is a tool that can be used for good and evil. Does not using a tool end up destroying a world? No.

Now,if the Rose wanted to destroy the Magic Core,THAT would be destroying magic,which would result in the destruction of Lore. But so far,the Rose never showed any interest in doing that.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 8:09:56)

The Rose reminds me of the healing church from bloodborne, thinking you can dominate something that is a force of the universe hehe i can't wait to see them fall apart when they do more harm than any of the villains we have faced so far.



Project Persona -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 13:37:23)

That comparison with Bloodborne is actually on point. I'm not too fond of the rose at all given they're all a bunch of jerks save Magus Neron, so I wouldn't mind seeing them crash and burn either.



VJ -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 13:59:49)

@hidan_orochimaru
I said destroying the 'balance' of the world, as we have no clue what would happen if they manage to seal magic away which would cause havoc at the very least.



hidan_orochimaru -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 16:22:13)

But wouldn't destroying the balance end up destroying the world? Also,can you please explain how the Rose is sealing magic away? Because that doesn't seem to be the case for me.



Rezilia -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 17:07:21)

Sealing magic is what they are attempting to do. Note that we mean sealing as in limiting the use of. Anything beyond that is speculation.

The world is already out of balance due to the Elemental Dissonance and the events of B2.



LyRein -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 18:03:59)

While we may all hate Drakath.

just remember he would have made a good king if Alteon didn't murder his father RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM.

THEN BANISH HIM AS A SIX-YEAROLD FROM THE KINGDOM.

i feel he's mostly just the result of a terrible past.

death of loved ones, isolation, starvation, struggle to survive, thieving and looting, forming temporary friends, making a gang, making a rebel gang, falling in love with the daughter of the king who slayed his father, having to fight the Hero who's one of her friends, ruining his chances to be king once again, having to team up with Seppy (he's not really a father figure), getting owned and left to die everytime we defeat him, etc etc.

to top it all off...
he was taught from a young age he will be powerful.

@above

so basically the Rose are your stereotypical Sauron and Voldemort fanbase?

EDIT

I wouldn't say Xan is... burning.

Pretty sure he got caught on fire and Warlic tried to heal him but being an Archmage he did the opposite and used Ice magic.
in the end Xan was left with permanent scar (a very noticeable one at that) because his fire no-longer burns him but it won't extinguish either because ice preserves.

so much for elemental balance.

EDIT #2

NEVERMIND, WARLIC WASN'T THAT NICE
AE's lore changes too much.



Solanaceae -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 18:15:46)

Slugwrath was killed by Alteon in front of Drakath in AQW, LyRein, not DF. Once again, there are still differences across timelines, such as Gravelyn being adopted.

Xan's head is a fireball that's incinerating him, yet also at the same time healing him from whatever Warlic did to preserve his life. It's former Xan, aka Alexander, who was the mage focused completely in ice magic.



LyRein -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 18:26:19)

@above
ik about xan

but what happened to Slugwrath in DF then?

the only logical explanation is his death.

even if he didn't do it infront of Drakath, doesn't mean Little Drakky didn't see the body or see Alteon taking over and banishing him.

if he didn't banish him and offered him to grow up in the castle

why would a four year old kid refuse?



The Jop -> RE: Is magic worth it? (12/8/2015 18:33:57)

I don't think Alteon is messed up enough to kill a man in front of his child. Drakath was probably told to run as the revolutionaries were entering the castle because, as we know from real history, when people overthrow royalty anyone in their way or in the family is in danger.



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