RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (Full Version)

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helloguy -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/5/2011 23:42:21)

I logged in today from a small break. Idk why ppl still complain....... I win 50 battles straight without losing. I'm a Mage,my gear is old but decent, I have no complaining what's so ever. Merc aren't op and BH's don't stand a chance. Idk what they did while I was gone but it's working....



The Doctor -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/5/2011 23:43:46)

@Master Volcon
Then by extension, you would agree with me, because halting releases is something I proposed.
Weapons would be reassigned as well, or would that not work?

Also, it has to be realized that this is not a project that could just happen spontaneously.
If I expected it to occur it would probably be over some time when Nightwraith, Titan, Charfade, and BigTuna (if he is still helping when he can) all had several weeks of free time.

Because, let's face it:
Even if something makes sense, chances are that it's going to do something else that we haven't thought of yet... hence one of the reasons for this thread's existence.

Thank you,
~The Doctor



Xendran -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/5/2011 23:45:39)

I'm essentially building the combat system from the ground up. Expect finished results in a week or two. Mayber sooner if im not a lazy *insert random word here*

@Goldslayer: however i've been playing this game since alpha and i know it better than almost amybody. I would know whether or not something would work. This is why i'm doing this myself (With opinions from others who i trust such as The Doctor and Ashari)

Also, you dare to call my system "any random math system"?
It's not a random system. It's a system designed specifically for this game.



helloguy -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 0:05:15)

So if they retrain us back to lvl one, will we still have all are gear ????? I would love to retrain back to lvl 1 If I get to keep all my achievements,gold,gear,and battles.



The Doctor -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 0:10:31)

@helloguy
If it is possible, then yes.
It seems like that would be an ideal situation.

Thank you,
~The Doctor



The Cannible -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 0:36:07)

How about something like... I dunno.. A chance to hit? Duh, why would we have chance to block but not chance to hit? Isn't it BLUNTLY obvious that the higher level you get the more OP block is going to get? Eventually we'll all get blocked over 1/2 the time. So my suggestion is, make Tech and Dex scale in their defenses exactly the same, and than add a "Chance to hit" onto tech. And buff the chance to block from what it is, have chance to hit match it. This helps kill high STR and SUP builds because you'll need the tech to actually hit someone.

Thank you.



sky222 -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 0:49:47)

@Xendran
Just one thing...having deflect based on str is pretty illogical
By your math this is what i suggest:
Deflect improves with supp
Crit ignores 25% def/res and improves with dex
Block improves with dex, and ignores full dmg but improves at a much slower rate
Stun improves with str AND tech
Tech would have the same rate and str would have half the rate



Silver Sky Magician -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 0:52:13)

^

I think that there's no 'chance to hit' but there's a 'chance to block' because when you attack, you expect that attack to hit. Having it blocked is a random, unexpected thing that is partially dependent on dexterity differences. And 'chance to block' does not increase with level or base dexterity, it increases with dexterity differences, so it does not necessarily follow that the higher level a player is, the more he will get blocked. However I do agree that blocks have a greater impact at higher levels as opponents can do more damage at those levels.




Hun Kingq -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 3:33:43)

So helloguy how come you are not on the leaderboard if your winning so much. So what stat do you abuse. Only reaaon there is so mahy complaints is that there are too many strength or support abusers, that either abuse the build with base stat or with enhancements. Bounty Hunters and Mercs are over powered and things are so unbalanced it has caused big time player frustrations. With Shadow arts at max a bounty hunter blocked all my strikes, blocked the robot, and when I did not need assimilation to be blocked he blocked that giving him the chance to use massacre. I had my defense all the way up to 32 +8 +1 people got big damage and I did not block and still got stunned by a strength abusing merc because I did not block by all means the high the Dex the greater chance of blocking and lower damage rate, obiviously not for the mage.

TurkishIncubus since you want to be a support abuser you have no right to complain because you are doing the very same thing players are getting pissed about, abusing a stat.

Since the programers messed with the block percentage and introduced shadow arts, it has affected the tech mage too much causing a lack of balance within the defense.

A mage, a bounty , and a merc all having +5 on the build the mage has the weakest offense and because the bounty and merc has a stronger offense no matter how much defense and resistance you have, you are lucky if you win.

Two things I noticed that was done with this last upgrade is reroute has no cool down and Assimilation has went to a three turn turnaround, but still is blockable. Something more has to be done then these two things for the mage.






TurkishIncubus -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 6:57:27)

^

I have right to complain , i tried 5 focus build which admins want us to use , it get much crit-BH do much block-Str Mercs kill us , its imposible to surive with a balanced build in this game.The best Build for mages is High support now,in my opinion.

i complain because stats are not balanced too, how can a 30 supp person do start-deflect-crit to a mage having 95 support ? My support abuse isnt the Main thing here , this is a balance discuss thread so i talked about stat balance.



helloguy -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (3/18/2011 21:04:04)

@hun king I'm not abusing any stat, I have a 5 focus build. An I'm not on the leader board because I only did 50 battles.........



Digital X -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 10:53:06)

Tried a 4 Focus build once, really wasn't my cup of tea, i either have a STR or Supp specialised build, just out of personal preference. Sure it might be sacrificing other stats such as Tech or Dex, but the damage gained from primary or aux's definitely makes up for it.



od -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 11:22:31)

Well it seems like most people think that caster mages are Uped. That is kind of true because when they run out of energy they don't hit too much. But earlier I was walking around fortune city and saw this guy named tormak who appeared to have a very powerful
caster build, so maybe caster mages arnt Uped! (Note: I didn't get to fight him since he was AFK)



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 11:25:18)

@od The only way caster build would work is if the mage has Cadens Wrath and is a lvl 32 with varium or not.But yeah Caster Buildds most definatly cant work without reruorte.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 12:31:30)

@od
caster build require too much energy , Heal+Skill+Malf and our skills improve wtih dex and tech which means after i used my skill i cant do a good dmg and i cant heal effective like a support build and my malf will be more weak.



od -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 12:41:38)

@both of you guys

Nope this guy was smart because his strategy ( I'm guessing based on skill tree) was maxoverld-gun-aux-maxovrld again and bam! Dead opponent. I won't go into too much detail cuz I don't think he'd like his build to be copied, but he had over 85 dex and decent str and supp + good Deadly aim to do good dmg while prepairing for next OL.



BloodRainbow -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 12:58:01)

@od yester day i fought a guy that had a maxed overlord... with that little bit of explanation u gave it sounds like the guy i fought...i destroyed him.. caster mages just dont work at higher lvls.



Hun Kingq -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 13:07:14)

So helloguy that is goood you are not abusing any stat but 50 in a row you must not have fought any bounty hunter with strength above 70 and health at 125 or any merc that had strength above 80 or the one that has 98 base strength and no matter if you gou first or not he stuns you in one move then in the move next he won. So how long did it take you to win 50 in a row?

TurkishIncubus I could understand if your testing a build and that is understandable but to have high support and complaing about others having high support that makes you a hypocrite. I test different builds with different weapons, that is why when you battle me one minute I have a different staff, sword, sidearm or Aux. I tried high support and it sucks for the mage other then increasing health, deflection, and not really damage with the Aux, you get killed with physical attacks or with energy weapons faster because your dex and tech is too low.

The Charfade's launcher is a joke for a level 37 weapon, I get more damage with the Ghoul cannon a level 36 weapon. I even get more damage with either of the heartbreaker weapons and they are lvel 34 weapons.

The code I posted earlier was just would be a way to get people to lower thier strength and what it was showing is that if the opponent decides to have strength above a certain amount then you would block 65% of the time but if the strength is below that then you would have the normal block rate, that would be the else if statement, they could do the same with support as well and when players realize they can't get that much damage with abusing one stat or another it would cause them to retrain and have a much less abussive build bringing back the (to get back on topic) balance in the game.




orrthehunter -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 13:09:30)

^ you do know the lvl cap is still lvl 32 right?



BloodRainbow -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 13:14:12)

@above hes talking about there base damage



Hun Kingq -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 13:40:12)

orrthehunter the level cap for the player is 32 not the weapons.

To further balance things out make the EMP take away only 10 energy points and blockable because just a minute ago a bounty went first used and EMP and took away 39 points of energy so because I had a staff and Assimilation only gets you 5 points of energy (at level 10) if not blocked, which now is getting blocked back to 95% of the time making it a useless skill again, so I just left because why stay and fight a losing battle when every stinking skill of the caster mage requires large amounts of energy, with 9 stinking points of energy, someone telling me what can I do with that.

So if they don't want to lower the amount of enegry taken away by the EMP then to balance things out make Assimilation unblockable keep it at a 3 turn turn around, take away 35 points of energy giving back half to health and half to energy.



TurkishIncubus -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 13:50:48)

@Hun Kingq

High Support Mage = Healloop with booster
its best build now for mages , Quick + has a good ratio , i only lose some oped builds , like high STR merc when they use energy primary and 5 focus EMP BHs.My Def is 30 and resist 30 , i got 94 supp , and 110 hp.my Defs are normal and i can heal incredible high and i can heal more than 3 times in a battle with booster.

@od

its useless , i can easyly win him with raged aux , he cant heal like me , Caster builds based on only skill after he use his skill than he will be powerless.If you are talking about under 25 lwl than you are right caster build good at lower lwl but use less in 32 lwl.



Calogero -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 14:08:18)

I'm using a 5 suport Tank Battle mage build... ( actualy it's ballanced, Enough Tech for Bots, Enough Dex for defence, enough Suport to make DM usefull and Enough str to hit 20/35 )
I don't say I don't lose but I'm certanly able to win 7/10 fights



TurkishIncubus -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 14:31:57)

^

You will get Much crit + your oponents will make deflect , if you dont count Non variums i think you win 5/10 of the Varium Battles which means your ratio will be %50 without non variums.And if we count non Variums is %70 a good ratio ?



IsaiahtheMage -> RE: A Comprehensive Balance Discussion (2/6/2011 14:49:30)

@Hun King you dont make any sence.If the highest lvl for a player is 32 they cant get a weapon that is higher then their lvl.I think you mean base dmg but if keep saying lvl not base dmg so your confusing me.Also Caster Build Mages suck at higher lvls there only affective at lvls below 20.Once about 20 there useless.



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