RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (Full Version)

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DD.CLYDESTER -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/10/2015 15:30:11)

Come to think of it, it may be possible for us to not eat aegis and be a fleshweaver.

quote:

Ash: I made it very clear in the revamped dialog that you are LEARNING the skills, not being cursed or turned undead or anything of that nature.

All cannon classes have you learning the abilities from a trainer, or using knowledge from a previous class and improving on them, or merging that knowledge with another. It's a way for you to grow and develop. That's why DC classes aren't canon, because in some of them you're going against what the main storyline says. (I.E. giving into Kathool or turning evil or being cursed)


Reading on the other thread, I found this sooooo yeah. Maybe it's possible for us to just learn the skills and power from a scroll or from roirr himself.

oh btw here's the link for the thread Clickies
[:)]



Ash -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/10/2015 15:33:46)

That's not a hard rule for all classes, just current classes and it was focusing on DeathKnight's issue. If Tomix wants you to eat someone to then unlock the class before you start unlocking the skills, you will. Stop trying to find loopholes.



rytis155 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/10/2015 16:04:36)

I'm a bit too late to the discussion, but I have something to say: guys, no one said that eating Aegis would mean him dying. So far we know too little about FleshWeaving and requirements for it. Roirr killed Vaal's SoulAlly, but we do not know if that's FleshWeaver's or Roirr's power.

Also, I'll quote Tomix's post (taken from The Dragonfable Archiving Thread):
quote:

Each of the 4 families use Elemental Spirits, in certain ways.
When a Soulweaver create a bond with an Elemental Spirit, he starts calling him his "SoulAlly".
ChaosWeavers, SoulSmiths and Murks call their Elemental Spirits "friends" differently.

Apparently, Murks (assuming Murk = FleshWeaver) also have Elemental Spirits to weave with. Now I have two ideas. Either consuming Aegis kills him so that we could find another Elemental Spirit to help us weave with fleshthreads OR consumption of Aegis would kind of fuse him with our character, meaning he would be IN our flesh, alowing to weave with it.

By the way, I find the first possibility unlikely to happen, since (quoting Tomix again)
quote:

ChaosWeaver class will be sold for DCs by Secundus, a Corrupted Elemental Spirit of...no no, I won't tell that yet. His element will be fire.

meaning that we could have two SoulAlies (Aegis and Secundus) for different weaving arts, without requiring to kill any of the allies. Assuming that same rules apply for all four weaving arts, becoming FleshWeaver wouldn't kill Aegis (but consume him however).

Finally, fusing our SoulAlly with ourselves could be a permanent thing and, if SoulWeaving requires our SoulAlly to be outside of our body, eating Aegis would lock the SoulWeaving for us.

This, like any other post in this discussion, is only speculation, since, as mentioned before, we know too little.



god of chaos -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/10/2015 16:33:34)

^rytis. Not really. Chaos weaver is not canon therefore you only have Aegis.



W.A.R.Z. -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/10/2015 16:36:39)

@rytis So Aegis MIGHT stick around like Vaal, but that might actually be worse depending on how we become a FleshWeaver, because we might be haunted by Aegis forever if we forced this to happen to him.

Edit: @Tomix
I'm sorry but I thought someone said that, I must be wrong though.



rytis155 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/10/2015 17:13:15)

god of chaos: Good point. However, I'd think that bonding with second Elemental Spirit (in this case Secundus) is canon, even if (Chaos)weaving with him is not.
W.A.R.Z.: Then again, Aegis might actually like the idea of being one with the hero ;)



Tomix -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/10/2015 17:26:00)

quote:

Also I don't have the quote but I think at one point Tomix said that we could have up to 3 allies.


I did not say that.



Womba -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/10/2015 19:18:40)

Tomix did say it's possible to have multiple Soul Allies.

But it's not a very good idea though.



Rio3678 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/10/2015 19:38:27)

quote:

So Aegis MIGHT stick around like Vaal, but that might actually be worse depending on how we become a FleshWeaver, because we might be haunted by Aegis forever if we forced this to happen to him.


Now I imagine this scene

Aegis: woooooooooooooooo, you ate me so now I'm haunting you, woooooo.

(I have nothing after that)

Anyway, my reasons for wanting Soul Smith and Flesh Weaver would be more the collector in me who wants to explore the abilities of every class. Heck I'd having all 4 weaving families would be the gold mine for me.



Doomful Lord -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/10/2015 20:34:53)

There's a lot to look over and I think I might as well put in my two cents. I would probably sacrifice Aegis for the class, provided I knew exactly how much it'd cut me off from the game, but that's because I'd like the class. However I am very adamantly against implementing the class. I'd rather have a want to have it, but not be able to get it. That way it's infinitely out of my reach and I can continue to idealize and think about it. It's like wanting my character to eventually be a villain. My name is Doomful lord, though in Game Lightning, though I'll probably eventually change that, and I'd want to follow suit, but the game is still about being a hero, and doing heroic things. I don't see the hero coming to any conclusion to sacrifice Aegis, no matter my or your interpretation of the event. TO me it'd TOO drastically change the story and significantly make the game darker in a needless way. I just don't see any tasteful way to implement it as is.

Next I want to look at the comparison between Fleshweaver and Doomknight. The problem with the idea that "We must do this for the UNLIMITED POWAH!" I think is that it can't be more powerful than Doomknight because Doomknight is the most powerful, then that really sort of makes the class weaker just mechanically. Even then it probably wouldn't be any stronger than normal soul-weaver just different, so doing so wold be for purely a flavor note. There'd be no real power, just us consuming something for our own kicks and giggles. "What about stopping Roirr" Well obviously if it's a choice there's another way. To me to be a hero isn't to simply fight evil with evil, but find a way to fight evil with good. The Slight corrupting nature of things like the Doom Weapons and the Cloak scrap are small flavor notes that are nice over time. Why did I get a Doom Weapon? Because it's a powerful weapon that I don't know corrupts me. Why did I keep the Scrap? I didn't think anything wrong would come from keeping it, or it enticed me by it's power. Becoming a Fleshweaver would have to be a fully conscious action I feel that would be more forced on the character by us as players rather than anything else.

Another note on Deathknights. Deathknights are a corrupted paladin from everything I can find, a combination of the skills of a necromancer and the skills of a paladin, meaning none of the classes are mutually exclusive because they all are related, just how you are using your own inner power.

Now this is how I'd do it, and am no way saying it's the ideal way nor am I trying to argue with Tomix: I'd have a different soul ally for each class. Aegis for Weaver, another for Smith, Another for Chaosweaver (Presumably we'd meet them after we buy the class much like the Pyromancer barber is and potentially gain them as an ally.) and then one that we can have that we devour, possibly as a story-line plot point for Fleshweaver. I'm not trying to find a loophole, because as I said earlier I would be comfortable probably with eating Aegis, I just feel that it's a too drastic measure for something that could be handled much more delicately and much more in tune with the game itself. This may sound like criticism of Tomix, and possibly other staff members, and probably is, but I give it as constructive criticism, as I want from other's for the ideas I have and the projects I do. As such I also accept that it is only that, my own opinion and I'll hold nothing against anyone that disagrees and I will probably always continue loving this game no matter what direction it takes and just have given my opinion as another fellow player of the game.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/10/2015 22:09:18)

^ you want to have the class but think we shouldn't get it? ok odd however the answer is simple...dont choose it no would be forcing it on you but you, also id like to add at this point THE HERO KNOWS WHAT DOOM WEAPONS ARE the fact he keeps one and does not destroy it is a very irresponsible choice that could even be a story effecting event one day yet thats a choice we as the players have the freedom flavor and choice and that is always a good thing, above all when the choice in the end wont effect those who dont want the class.

that said i too wont be mad if it was not implemented it just an opportunity to have something really cool.



monstervet -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 14:47:31)

@Dark Lord Urmi
Loved that edit, nice save.
Been busy last week and possibly this week as well however, i have read every post, i dont think you understand the anti-flesh side.
I know we are going back and forth and soulsmith isnt getting much mention but, well, i dont know maybe now that we have a small idea of what soulsmith will be speculation has died down?

Correct me if im wrong but the Pro-fleshweaver side believes that if the class is made it is all about choice, it is not mandatory and therefore a win-win because you dont have to choose it if you dont want to. However if the class doesnt get made its a loss of content and then you may feel a bit bummed, thats the general idea correct?

Anti-flesh is in my opinion, just that, an opinion.
If it gets made, we dont want it, if it doesnt well there wont be need to avoid buttons that could change the game, however i dont think the class has been confirmed. Its more of a thought, an idea. Most people against the class are simply voicing there opinions, many may take it to far, i agree, but it is still unconfirmed and people can voice there opinions. some may be against it because they feel it will cause other content to be released at a latter time, others may have other reasons for not wanting the class.


Your planting a garden wondering what seed to plant, making a menu thinking whether to serve meat or veg. I try to find parallels but cant find the right one, perhaps smoking?
I'm not a fan of smokers, if someone smokes in my general direction i walk away, i dont judge (or care, its there CHOICE) however some people dont approve of smoking, they'll make an argument of them not smoking at the bus stop or some other public place.

I understand both sides of the argument, however i try not to choose a side, i dont approve of smoking but id rather just avoid smokers when there smoking, if i had the choice to decide whether or not cigarettes existed in the first place i would be totally against it, but since i cant well i just avoid it.

Similarly we have two sides each with there own opinion, the easy answer would be just dont use the class, however since its still unconfirmed (correct me if im wrong) a lot of people are voicing there opinion against it because thats there opinion.


However that is my opinion (long i know but i like to leave no stone unturned)

Soulsmith on the other hand, i wonder so much about, just trivial things really hopefully we will eventually get a somewhat deeper explanation of what it is, maybe some history (and choice of name), etc.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 15:20:31)

monstervet ive made several edits you are going to have to be specific. Smoking does effect those around the smokers so id say more akin to eating meat to vegan as a choice, Its hard to see things from the anti side when VJ was the major anti saying we should lose EVERYTHING instead of the reasonable soulweaver and master weaver class but what you said for pro side is right yeah i feel a few things more but i wont count me.



monstervet -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 15:53:25)

yeah vegan and meat came to mind which is why i gave the menu example, however in this case anti-fleshweavers would be vegan (and im not a fan of vegans)

I agree VJ would be the vocal majority, however it was clearly stated that you would simply lose weaving, not get all those things VJ wanted, tomix gave the price and it was simple, VJ just felt that more should be added.

I dont agree with the things VJ felt should be taken if fleshweaving happened, but that is his opinion, it i neither confirmed and i doubt that would be a penalty from fleshweaving.

i meant this edit
quote:

that said i too wont be mad if it was not implemented it just an opportunity to have something really cool.


i felt it was on point, and a great way to finish that post.

Yeah i know smoking affects those around you, its kinda why i used it, its a choice you make personally but those that oppose it wish that the option to CHOOSE didnt exist in the first place. At least thats what ive seen.

In general im glad things have toned down, we can have a clear discussion about the class its benefits, downsides, etc. too bad im going to be busy.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 16:00:25)

OH that one yeah i said that once before just wanted to show i wouldnt go berserk XD, well for me the class represents the current arc as a whole (the hero's mental state) as well as a good way to show that even the hero is not a paragon of light...also i bet the art would be exquisite.



Rio3678 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 17:59:55)

@Monstervet

looks like you and I are in serious agreement about the choice and appeasing both sides.

I still have the Aegis Haunting scene I made earlier in my head.



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 20:50:23)

It has been almost 3 weeks of trying to find a way to become a Fleshweaver and keep Aegis at the same time. For all that is good in this world, IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!!!


Here are your choices, your ONLY choices:

1. Keep Aegis around and forfeit becoming a Fleshweaver

2. Eat Aegis and become a Fleshweaver



lightriftwalker122 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 21:14:15)

If FW is released I will become a FW . i wonder how exactly are Soulsmith weapons forged does it hurt the ally when they use parts of it to forge? It says forging from Elemental sprits parts of it or directly.



Christophoses -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 21:17:48)

@lightriftwalker122

It was stated somewhere that Soulsmiths bind spirits to weapons. It's kind of like the cube that Pandora resided in that Tomix carried around.



lightriftwalker122 -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 21:26:55)

ok But does it hurt them? I think there is a possibility and can they use weapons of different elements?



Chaoshaper -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 21:28:53)

I like to think binding spirits to weapons is like a hermit crab finding a new shell



salene -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 23:23:08)

I tried to stay away from this thread, considering the eating-of-soul-allies-and-the-morality-of-it isn't really my forte, however, I do feel impelled to say one thing.

The hero is not evil. The staff has stated this before (even if we wish they were)

I don't think that eating Aegis is really something the hero would do, no matter how evil the player playing that character is.

Meaning, it kinda feels out of character for the hero to just eat Aegis in order to gain some mysterious evil powers, and I would hope that the DF team would stick to what the hero feels is immoral or moral.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 23:41:37)

^ how is that any different than upgrading a doom weapon seeing as in canon we do have it i mean the hero saw what happened to serenity yet he keeps it just like he kept the scrap. He may just be compelled, a nice guy is not immune from corruption seppy is a good example of this.



DracoUltimus -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 23:43:16)

quote:

or facing those fw in arenas which again would force us to deal with fws and again forcing other people's chose on us.


I dunno... I actually WANT to fight some FleshWeavers... Punish them for thier atrocitious act of devouring their SoulAlly.

EDIT:
I hope i didn't just start the Gigantic arguement back up. I just wanted to state my opinion of what he said about wanting nothing to do with FleshWeaver, PVP or no.



Dark Lord Urmi -> RE: FleshWeaver and Soul Smith Class II (5/11/2015 23:49:42)

^ wont hear any complaints from me the SWs SHOULD WANT to fight the FWs it would be fun!



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