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RE: =ED= Upcoming Balance Changes (Patch 1.5.39)

 
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11/15/2013 7:09:04   
Ranloth
Banned


No. The class was designed to be more Melee-based version of Tech Mage, whilst retaining good offense. Yes, it's lost DA but BloodLust covered the HP return - and now Mark - which still makes it better for offensive builds, since Mark relies on your offense.

BMs were never designed to be pure offensive class. They've had synergy of skills which has favoured offensive builds, such as Str + DA + BloodLust + Bludgeon/Zerker + Fireball <- all needed Strength to boost their offense. The synergy is no more. Only because they aren't offensive enough to your liking, doesn't mean they need a boost in that area. BMs can pull off good offensive builds, and defensive as well. They were offense-oriented class but not designed to be purely offensive.
AQ Epic  Post #: 76
11/15/2013 9:29:23   
Hellion Storm
Member

How hard are you nerfing assimilation? will it even still be a usable skill after this update?
Epic  Post #: 77
11/15/2013 11:30:27   
Dreiko Shadrack
Member

Oh it'll be useable.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 78
11/15/2013 11:58:23   
  RabbleFroth
ED Programmer


quote:

How hard are you nerfing assimilation? will it even still be a usable skill after this update?

We're moving it more towards a drain now that TM have a reliable energy generator. Previously it was designed to provide an on-demand energy boost if Reroute wasn't enough, but that's no longer as necessary.
Post #: 79
11/15/2013 12:11:44   
Oswald Cobblepot
Member

if battles will be more durable you have to increase the amount of credits earned in each battle.
AQW Epic  Post #: 80
11/15/2013 12:13:24   
romanu
Member

Will Bounty Hunters get a new energy regeneration skill or something from the other classes?
Post #: 81
11/15/2013 12:38:31   
Dreiko Shadrack
Member

They will get something to gain energy yes.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 82
11/15/2013 12:46:26   
beaststyles
Member
 

@Mother1

Re. Lower lvl Jugg nerf.

I am sorry but I have to disagree with this nerf to lower level Juggs. Reasons:

1. Nerfing the experienced.

Whether you realise it or not, you are indirectly asking for a nerf to lower lvl experienced players not just lower lvl Juggernauts. Because as you agree, the low lvl juggs are mostly player who have other accounts/characters and therefore have experience. So the problem is not with the game being op for lower lvl juggernauts but instead that these juggernaut battels are usually: 1 experienced vs 2 less experiences or 1 experienced vs 1 experienced and 1 less experienced player. I.e. lower level juggs are mostly experienced players. But you see this is not the case with only jugg battels but also normal 2v2 and 1v1. Every time you get experienced v less experienced, the outcome will most likely be that the experienced player will win even if they are a few levels lower. Therefore indirectly you are asking for a nerf to experienced players. But why are you limiting the nerf to only juggs? why not 1v1 and 2v2 too. With your concept there should be a nerf for all experienced players. So why limit to lower levels? I am sure you will agree that you get less experienced players at higher levels too.

So the questions is nerf more experienced players compared to less experienced once? Absolutely not! I believe if experience does not play a role in a game and acts as a nerf, then there is no point for PvP. You can't nerf players just because they are more experienced. That's taking balance to another extreme.

2. 2way Nerf.

The nerf to offensive abilities which will come with the upcoming update will apply to all players. That includes juggernauts and also the 2 players on the other side. Also the buff to tankability will affect not only juggs but again also the 2 opponents who will be facing the juggernaut (due to increased HP/EP etc.


I hope you enjoy the update :D.

Thanks,

Beast.
Post #: 83
11/15/2013 13:28:08   
Altador987
Member

first, a huge thanks to Rabble for explaining a lot of this to us it's really exciting, but i just had some thoughts about future and presently coming changes and i will speak on both general occurrences and the classes i have first as i have not yet tried all of them

General:
the amount of blocks to deflects to crits dont really quite add up, i know about the debuff at certain abuses of stats but a person with 31-38 res will deflect a lot more than someone with that amount of defense and seeing as shadow arts no longer even helps that out it's really outta wack, but then randomly those with low dex will have blocks from nowhere and that doesn't quite make sense either, crits are weird for those with a lot of support but not abusive: my cy had 17 to whatever damage on aux but crit weren't that often even with cheap shot yet tank mercs who use bunker crit regularly even with no support, i'm not really upset i just dont quite get it. Also huge problem with juggernauts, in general... a lvl 30 fighting a 25 and a 21 is not a juggernaut that is a high lvl picking on one lvl that already stands little chance of winning against it and giving him or her more problems by adding someone who's items can barely do damage anyway due to lvl cap of weapons not to mention money and cores. Also personally, being put into a match i didnt ask for that usually wastes my time is rather unfair especially when a good bunch of those juggs can hardly win their regular matches and usually only jugg during power hour not to mention only the jugg gets something special out of it... so there's not a lot of incentive for the ones being shoved into the matches. i just think the lvl gap should be smaller or compensated for (ie a lvl 30 vs a 27 and a 24 assuming the credit rewards are the same or like a lvl 30 vs 2 25's with an increase for the lower lvl's as incentive and not just a complete waste of time)

as someone who has both varium and nonvarium accounts i really kinda felt ripped off when my mage paid for the little coins for gifts from the machine and recieved multiple maces and claws that he can't use and to top it off they were the same items not to mention i got 20 cred back for em... it was a huge waste of money, and i of course can't demand you give me money back or anything but could you at least make it so that our money and hard work is paid off with something we can use, like the house items weren't so bad until i received the same one three times when i'd never gotten rid of the first one i'd won

Cy hunters: when this class first came out i was really excited about all the possibilities it could possess because i thought that the class would be able to run more like the caster mages do now, not with how they rely on only dex and tech but the ability to regain mp and essentially be able to use different combinations for different situations, i wont talk about the plasma armor seeing as you already have plans for it so i'll wait: when it originally came out i had a really sweet build that could poison, malf, and multi, and while neither of those skills did outrageous damage they all came into play and chipped away at damage evenly all the while i was able to maintain decent strength as well, so i'm really excited to see static will be buffed again, however i do wish in the future we could do something about our stun, personally i've never even seen it stun anyone and though i've never played as a low cy hunter (i changed from a mage the hard way) in higher lvl battles most people tend to rely on tech anyway to the point where it doesn't do much damage at all, interestingly enough i think the cy's need a decent physical attack that doesn't rely on having to get a physical weapon, to make them more even in both realms of attack like bounty hunters

which brings me to bounty hunters: i honestly think the mark of blood is a great skill, though i'd say it shouldnt use so much mp, the thing is i always saw the hunters as ones who could chip away damage without use of a lot of mp mine was a hybrid for all situations, once the poison bots came in i saw how interestingly useful 8 damage for 4 turns could be so i let my bh take 5, it doesn't take a lot but 20 in an overall playout can be very useful... speaking of poison, while i wont complain that tacts can do more damage with theirs, it seems a little unfair that theirs does more at less cost especially when they could initially regain mp anyway, personally i really liked the reflex boost because i never used it for a high dex build it was moreso a defense mechanism at little cost that gave a good amount of dex back with decent support and then i could get mp, and seeing as i tended not to use a huge amount i didn't need oh so much to begin with. that being said i really don't know how to feel about shadow arts at all for my cy nor my bh because i can't gage how useful it is seeing as it uses a lot of mp and i still was takin decent damage and i tend to play a more defensive game so my def and res were nice enough that i shouldn't have for the amount of mp i had to use. also in comparison i've noticed that i crit more with cheap shot as a bounty than i do as a cy and my cy had more support by a good margin i just wondered if you knew any reason why or could look into it.

Tech mages: now this one is a little difficult because i don't like to jock style so i refuse to rely on the ever so boring all tech all dex stats, however the all strength all support mages are really a problem as well, a lot of 1v1 strategy is based solely on support, the abuse of or lack there of: either have so much going 2nd is impossible or have none and invest in only dex and tech so it doesnt matter. and it's really old. mages and merc tend to be the more unoriginal jocks of the playing field regardless of lvl and while i'm not sayin we should force anyone to have a certain build i think there's definitely room to make different original builds more desirable. One thing i did notice is that the firewave i weaker than bludgeon but costs more... i know it's unblockable and i guess i sorta see the balance but at the same time i can only see that it's going to ignore a percentage of defence and have no actual idea how much it can do and it's a little frustrating when using strategy. my hugest thing for mages is that in order to rebuff whatever was debuffed it usually only requires dex or tech, which is why we have those casters they dont need support to malf you they do so much damage anyway, they dont need to use their shield they have so much dex to begin with. i just think certain skills should rely on less loopy stats. the four caster attacks shouldn't all rely on dex or tech and only require a certain amount of strength it makes things too easy... and i certainly don't have all the answers nor do i wish to nerf mages and even casters oh so much but it's really frustrating when a caster with no support get's a crit while you has decent to even a lot of support only gets deflected. honestly i think the energy gain could depend on a certain skill like support or even strength or something (nerfing and or buffing the amount only a bit not by a huge bunch), but seeing as it's free at no cost and you can literally replace all your mp it would just add to strategy if it was affected by support (seeing as support can't be nerfed really)

Mercs: a lot of mercs complain they're nerfed due to the passive active swap but most of them don't need it anyway, i almost always see only two types of mercs, support or tech, the supporters rely on going first, crits, two very strong hits to begin with and then stealing mp, and the techs have so much tech and in turn can put their armor stats on def since they can steal mp and bunker, then use surg. so it wasn't a huge deal... however it SHOULD be because atom smasher is waaaay too overpowered, i understand that i was made to be like the bounties and cybers but emp relies on tech, uses mp, and doesn't give any back, just an hour ago a merc with 23 strength took away 24 mp retaining 18 for himself... when strength build cyber hunters couldnt even do that with a malf and a crit, and while i have noticed that the counter is using mp, those who spent nothing on str shouldnt steal that much or get that much back when the damage they'd prolly do is 3, honestly i believe theirs would be better scaled to the present cyber hunter's (well not that low cause no offense to you all static charge is just ridiculously underpowered) seeing as you get some back and steal theirs, and it wouldnt be a huge nerf seeing as mercs can give themselves strength that also heals when doing damage... honestly artillery strike shouldnt be allowed to crit as it's based off of support anyway and can be used in rage which ignores defenses, all that and then a crit when crits are already abused is a bit much. all in all i dont think mercs need a lot of change because they're not THAT op

Tact Mercs: i think reroute was actually the better skill for these guys because it gave them a certain strategy that was hard but not unbeatable even for the semi tech build most rely on so much. Now we have that and a few have gone back to the support thing and added poison which is just really boring, mind you i don't have one so i can't say what it's like being one but fighting one gets super dull super quick, poison should cost a lil more seeing they can instantly regain mp when they hardly use a lot of it anyway only to surg strike... i honestly dont have much to say for this class but i feel like it could use some different skills as to me it seems like the most uneventful class as just about all of it relies on havin enough mp to surg with

Blood Mage: i really can't say here, i dont have one but i honestly dont see much of a problem, a lot are complaining about the new mana thing but they could neither steal nor regain mana and now to gain hp they have to use mp and to be offensive they have to use mp so i dont really see a huge problem with it especially since most bm's cant abuse stats anymore, if they try to pull the caster build they have no support to defend themselves and they can only use it like once or twice, strength build is cool but you need mp to heal from the damage you make and support doesn't do oh so much because it only really affects your defensive skills, to me it seems pretty balanced however i can't say i don't see too many of em any more it's usually tacts, mercs, and techs, followed by the hunters


this was a lot but i feel like the way this update seems to be focused on is really the right way instead of making huge drastic changes... and i never really thought about it but if we're trying to give everyone a way to regain mana in some way will they do the same for cybers in health as they are the only ones who can't and while i'm not so sure we need one exactly, it's sorta the same idea ya know
AQW Epic  Post #: 84
11/15/2013 13:59:04   
Scyze
Member

One of the reasons to why I didn't want to play EpicDuel a lot this week was because of the balance. I knew that if I got used to this new change, I'd be bad the next week when there's more balance. The wasn't much point for me to get used familiar with last week's update because when the new one comes, I'd be a newbie; again.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 85
11/15/2013 17:53:56   
kaierti1
Banned


i guess. last week so many players changed to tech mage. almost op. they were so many. in 1 v 1. now i think almost op is bounty hunter. and many player will be changed to this class. im interesting which class is next? to enhance. and if all will be tech mages and bounty hunters will be such game interesting? chance 50% to 50%. just i wanna say even merc is good with static smash 68% conversion, tech mages is good assimilitation enhanced + getting free energy plasma supercharge just so great, tactical mers is good too with energy backup and now bounty hunters stealing energy and getting 50% of steal. left only 2 classes. blood mage and cyber hunter. cyber was early weak, before this update but i didnt understand why u destroyed blood mages? without blood lust and deadly aim now? it was 2 best skills. now 15% current energy is not enough and mark of blood need energy to use. i guess i will change class. i think now will be fight with poison bot non focus and 6 damage 3 turns. 3 best classes are 1. bounty hunter 2. tech mage. 3. tactcal mercenary. and left 3 worst classes. 4. merc (because destroyed hybrid armor) 5. blood mage (because destroyed bloodlust and deadly aim) 6. cyber hunters. they were weak early time and long time. so its result guys. i think its not balance. because 3 classes enhanced and 3 classes lowered. need to increase left 3 classes too.
Post #: 86
11/15/2013 18:07:20   
InFlamed Fury
Member

I'm just happy that Static Charge is now unblockable and that Bounty Hunters now have a sure way of getting Energy.
Liking the balance better than before so good job Rabble.

~InFlamed Fury~
AQW Epic  Post #: 87
11/15/2013 18:07:23   
ambien
Member

great update again tms now have a fighting chance

always the syfy
Post #: 88
11/15/2013 18:11:02   
Ranloth
Banned


I've had a test with my Lvl 29 CH, 76 Tech and Lvl 8 Plasma Armor. +19 Resistance for 4 turns @ cost of 27 Energy... DEFINITELY better but not sure if cost wise, it's worth it. Compared to Matrix/Energy Shield, it seems a bit expensive for the amount of defense it gives even after you include the fact it lasts 4 turns as opposed to 3.

I think the Armors could use a minimal reduction in their Energy cost, such as 2-3 Energy less at all levels, so max would be 28-29 Energy.
AQ Epic  Post #: 89
11/15/2013 18:25:06   
Predator9657
Member

Slightly disappointed that base HP and EP didn't get buffed.
Epic  Post #: 90
11/15/2013 18:27:48   
Mother1
Member

@ predator9657

HP and EP did get buffed by .25 percent. So for every 4 points you invest you get an extra HP or EP. It is a small buff but is still a buff.

As for the update it is a mixed bag for me.

While I like some of the things they did, I am hating now that Epic duel is become tank duel. Offensive builds took a hard nerf, while almost everything defensive got buffed.
Epic  Post #: 91
11/15/2013 18:30:08   
ValkyrieKnight
Member

Awe cmon why did you have to do that to Reflex boost, that was one of my most valued skills, now its near useless. I can only regain energy through parasite? bullocks.

Edit: Ugh cmon with that emp, now I'ma just get smoked, debuff it, and get drained, lousy.

< Message edited by ValkyrieKnight -- 11/15/2013 18:36:53 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 92
11/15/2013 18:34:02   
cross my heart
Member

Made a Tech Mage build with the new update. Turns out it was poo and can't find anyone that will lets me retrain.
Post #: 93
11/15/2013 18:46:21   
Predator9657
Member

quote:

Awe cmon why did you have to do that to Reflex boost


You're right, that nerf was uncalled for.
Epic  Post #: 94
11/15/2013 19:10:25   
Mother1
Member

@Predator9657

With that change they completely removed the reroute effect from the game. While it wasn't as strong as the original reroute it still had the effect of it.

But with this update they just made some more original moves. Stun grenade is now a tactical merc only move and now it can be balanced without hurting or overpowering bounty hunter.

But I am still concerned about static charge being unblockable now. it has now become a free unblockable hit which IMO in the wrong build's hands can become overpowered.
Epic  Post #: 95
11/15/2013 19:17:45   
Predator9657
Member

quote:

Stun grenade is now a tactical merc only move and now it can be balanced without hurting or overpowering bounty hunter.


No it's not. BH still have it

quote:

With that change they completely removed the reroute effect from the game. While it wasn't as strong as the original reroute it still had the effect of it.


Was there anything wrong with reflex boost having that effect?
Epic  Post #: 96
11/15/2013 19:25:01   
Mother1
Member

@Predator9657

My mistake on that first one. I was looking at the wrong class. EMP grenade is now a Cyber hunter only move.

But on another note Rabble since you are removing duel passive effects from buffs what about Blood commander? Like Reflex boost it gives two effects. It buffs strength and gives is like a mini blood lust that gives back health with every attack.

Shouldn't the life gain effect be removed as well?
Epic  Post #: 97
11/15/2013 19:44:10   
martinsen5
Member

There is a bug with Static Grenade where I still drain 47 energy and regain 24 even though the opponent has, say 24 energy left.

Edit: At least I think so :S
AQW Epic  Post #: 98
11/15/2013 19:54:49   
Dual Thrusters
Member

@Mother

I made a few builds with max Static Charge and here are my conclusions:

- Static Charge does give quite a bit of energy back..if you hit hard enough.
- Being based on the damage you do, it shouldn't really be that significant since you hit very low with all the tanks running around
- Malfunction got nerfed big time, so bb synergy
- You can't rage this skill, meaning if your strike usually does like 6 damage, then you will only get 4 from it

In short, this skill is only great on Strength builds. But now even those aren't very good in this update.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 99
11/15/2013 19:55:24   
Predator9657
Member

@Martinsen: that is how static smash works, so I think that is how it was intended to work.
Epic  Post #: 100
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